Melody Wilding: How do you become fully confident and in control of your emotions and experience at work? It’s by mastering your own psychology and that of others. On this show, we decode the science of success, exploring how to get out of your own way and advance your career to new levels without becoming someone you’re not.

I’m Melody Wilding, bestselling author, human behavior professor and award winning executive coach. Get ready and let’s put psychology to work for you.

When was the last time you updated your resume? If you’re like most people, it’s probably been gathering digital dust somewhere on your hard drive. Maybe you’ve thought about refreshing it, but the idea of doing that feels completely. Overwhelming, or maybe you are already actively job searching, but you’re not getting the responses you hoped for.

I’m hearing that a lot lately. Today’s episode is going to change all of that. I am very excited to welcome Lisa Rangel. She’s the founder of Founder and CEO rather of Chameleon Resumes where her and her team have helped executives and professionals in over 88 countries land their dream roles.

And what I really love about Lisa’s approach, why I wanted to have her on, is that she doesn’t just focus on the tactical elements of resume writing. She understands the psychology behind what makes hiring managers take notice because she is a former executive recruiter. So Lisa, welcome. So excited to have you here.

Lisa Rangel: Thank you so much, Melody. I’m thrilled to be here.

Melody Wilding: Yeah. Yeah. So let’s jump into it. ’cause as I said, you and your team, you have written thousands of resumes probably at this point over the years.

What are some of the biggest changes you’re seeing with resumes? We can also talk about interviewing, hiring, but especially since the pandemic over the last four or five years now.

Lisa Rangel: You know, a lot has changed, but I, I would say that some of the core changes that I think people need to embrace are attention spans are much, much shorter. so leading with achievements on that top third of your resume, I, I call that prime resume real estate is key. You know, having tasks, throughout your resume, especially at the top, is not gonna engage a reader and it’s not gonna differentiate you from the competitive landscape that you’re gonna be up against.

You’re up against, especially at the senior level, you’re up against people who have accomplished just as much, if not more than you.  You have to, you can’t compete the way you did 10, 15 years ago. You have to do it now, and if you’re an up and comer, you wanna look the part before you get it.

So either way, leading with achievements solves a lot of problems in terms of helping you outshine your competition, it diminishes any issues with regard to ageism, and ageism can be not only for those of us that are over 40, but those of us that are, younger than 42, ageism goes in any direction.

And so when you lead with achievements, it’s ageless. and that’s been a, a trending pattern over the last few years where resume used to be more task-based or skill-based.

Melody Wilding: Can you give an example of when you see, when you see someone’s resume and you’re like, this is, this is not going to catch someone’s eye. It’s tasks based, responsibility based. What’s the difference? Like, can you give an example between that versus someone who leads with accomplishments?

Lisa Rangel: So, you know, if someone is a strategic leader, instead of saying I’m a strategic leader, talk about the strategy that you did and the outcome and or the impact of that strategy. If you’re a CFO and you’re, you know, getting sophisticated lending arrangements, like what are the arrangements?

Like what lending, what leverage did you create? What, was the outcome of it? What freedom did it give the organization to use funds for, you know, other initiatives.

If you’re a mid-level manager or a staff level person, take any bullet that you have on your resume and ask yourself, how well did you do that? Or, why do people depend on me to do that? That’s the differentiator.

In the answer of, to that question of how do you know you do it well, that’s where your achievement lies.

Melody Wilding: Hmm. And okay. So lot, lots and lots of questions here because you know, I’ve had, especially over the last year, 18 months, a lot of clients who are wanting to make a change, but it feels like the market has been very slow, right? Maybe, I don’t know if you’re seeing the same. So, okay, so what I’m hearing from a lot of folks is they’re having trouble narrowing their resume down.

So, for example, let’s talk about how important keywords are, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this because some of the people I talk to will say, well, there’s really not. There’s not keywords I can target for my role because I do a lot of different things and what my role is called here is different from another organization.

So as you were saying, it’s really important to catch attention. So how do you, how do you mesh that with this idea of having keywords in your resume while also presenting accomplishments? How do we make those, all those things sink together?

Lisa Rangel: As, as you, and that’s a valid concern. You know, as you increase your, your, level of responsibility, your resume tends to get longer and longer, and it’s an inside job in order to present outside. And so I always like to ask someone, of everything that you can do, and you may even be great at it, what do you not wanna do anymore?

Because when you start to zero in on what you want to do and really own the fact that there’s certain things that even if you’re great at it, you don’t wanna do anymore, that helps you start to whittle down your document.

Your resume is a marketing document. It’s not, you know, a biography. It’s not an obituary, it’s not a, a summary of everything you’ve ever done. It’s to market you for the next role.

And so, even if you have some achievements that are outstanding and you’re very good at it, but you know in your heart, oh my goodness, I don’t wanna do that any ever again. Then either downplay it or remove it from your resume. Because if it’s in a very prominent spot of your resume, that prime resume real estate spot that I mentioned earlier, you’re gonna get calls for it.

Sometimes you can’t eliminate it ’cause it’s just part of the story of making you who you are to show that you’re qualified at the level you’re qualified at, but, but then strategically downplay it on the document. Don’t make that one of your highlights.

And if you focus on what you are wanting to do in the next role, then go seek employers that want what you want to continue doing. And that is, you know, step one. And that’s a few steps that one needs to do to be happy at work. Because if you’re constantly being approached for work you don’t wanna do anymore, and you even say yes to doing it, guess what? You just, you know, shirk your responsibility for what you need to do to be happy in a job.

Right? So we can’t always put it on our employer. we have to be able to say, I wanna do this. I don’t wanna do this. And that’s how you start to whittle away and, and tackle the update in your resumes.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and I, I do wanna talk about where do people start with this in a moment, which is that, that’s a great recommendation, right? Think about what you don’t wanna do. And it’s funny you say that because you and I connected a few months ago when we were talking about how you meet people at one point. Of their journey, either they’re leaving a certain role or starting a new one.

And usually I’m helping them while they’re in a role. And it’s so funny you say, just put it through that filter of what do or don’t you wanna do anymore? Because I see the exact same thing when

Lisa Rangel: That’s a filter for you too.

Melody Wilding: Yeah. are in their role and they’re trying to build a reputation and visibility, don’t bring visibility to the things you don’t wanna do anymore.

If you don’t wanna be known for someone that does, turnarounds or analytics or whatever it is, then stop telling anecdotes and stories about that. And so there’s so much application to the resume as well. And, thank you for saying that. It’s a marketing document because I, I think some people operate with the idea that we, the CV sort of mindset where just an ongoing log of everything you’ve done. Whoever is looking at it, you’re gonna lose them very quickly because they can’t. I and, and even when people, when I’m hiring and I look at resumes, I will look at it and say, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to gather from this. I’m having to do a lot of labor and cognitive lifting to figure out what is your story, what, I know you’ve done a role in the past, but it doesn’t seem like this role that I’m hiring for, and you lose me at that translation. So don’t, I think what I hear you saying is, don’t make people have to do so much of that heavy

Lisa Rangel: lifting.

Well, that’s a a key point, you know, to, I know I didn’t necessarily address the keyword part in my prior answer, but the key words help not only with ’cause when you resume, whether you are networking and send your resume to a person, or you’re submitting to a job posting or you’re sending it to a third party recruiter who eventually is, is sending it in. You want keywords on the documents for two reasons. and they need to be strategic. You know, you need to have a reason for them. Don’t just, you know, keyword stuff a document. The document needs to be searchable. Right, so it’s gonna end up in an Applicant Tracking system at some point. An ATS is simply a database.

It’s not, you know, some mysterious bot with like arms coming in and picking people. It’s, it’s not that mysterious. It’s really just a database, the same way you search on a. you know, ChatGPT and search on search engines and, and databases respectively, everywhere that every company has a database of some kind, you need your document to be searchable.

So having the keywords worked into the content, you know, not just a keyword dump is smart.

Secondly, you are gonna have people reviewing it, and I always use the analogy of when you do a search of some kind online, you don’t read everything from top to bottom. Then go, oh, okay, this is what I need to do.

You scan it first to see if you’re in the right spot, and that visual validation needs to happen. And the, the key words help with visual validation. You know, like, am I in the right spot? Okay. Yeah. Alright, I’ll keep reading. You want to motivate the reader to keep reading and ultimately you want them to call you for an interview or set up an interview with you to keep talking about it.

But the goal of the resume is to, is to get an interview call. It’s not to land the job. You don’t need to put everything in it. It’s not interviewing for you, but enough to wet the appetite and key words early in the document, help with that scan that people do to then say, I got, I should keep reading.

Melody Wilding: And I’ve seen, please don’t, if you’re listening, please don’t do this, which is, you were talking about keyword stuffing. I’m sure you’ve seen at the bottom of the document, people put in all white text,

Lisa Rangel: That is quite literally a tactic from like the year 2000 when job boards first came on and Monster came on and had their Super Bowl ad, like people would literally put white font at the bottom. It’s ridonculous that it’s, it’s still happening.

Melody Wilding: Yes, I know. Don’t,

Lisa Rangel: Yeah, because it, It’s data. The color doesn’t matter. The data comes up and you’re gonna see it.

Melody Wilding: Yeah.

Lisa Rangel: Data is colorless,

Melody Wilding: Well, and, and I, I appreciate, there’s a couple things I, I wrote down. I wanna talk about AI and job boards and all of that.

Let’s talk about AI because, obviously huge buzzword right now. People are hearing it from the side of the ATS, which I, I think there’s a lot of drama out there about the ATS that people do feel it’s this big scary thing. How do I get past it? And then there’s also a lot of talk about how do you use a AI to rework your resume, your LinkedIn, your, your job search documents. So just going back to the ATS for a second, were saying it’s a database. Is there truth to the fact that the ATS does have like knockout criteria and what should we keep in mind when we’re thinking about getting past quote unquote the ATS.

Lisa Rangel: I mean, you know, I think there’s a lot of, drama, unnecessary drama around the whole idea of a knockout question. A knockout question. Knocks people out of the running. I mean, like, if you know it’s a in-person job and somebody’s submitting that, they only want a remote job and they answer, I only want a remote job, they’re gonna get knocked out.

And that’s okay. Like a recruiter should not be spending time on a resume or even interviewing somebody, only find out in the second interview, they don’t want an in-person job. So that doesn’t waste the time of the candidate or the recruiter. So knockout questions are good. You know, as long as they’re done ethically, morally right, you know, obviously not breaching any laws or, not, excluding people that shouldn’t be excluded.

Right. So, obviously it all needs to be done properly, but that’s all part of it, you know, and, recruiters will use tools to go through candidates more effectively and efficiently, and they should, and job seekers need to adjust to that the same way, you know, the fact that we’re even talking about ChatGPT for, for the resume.

Well, why can’t recruiters use it to recruit? You know, we’re all trying to make things a little bit better, right? We’re all trying to be more efficient. People send resumes, blanketly using tools to send a thousand resumes to, a bunch of employers at once instead of individually, why can’t recruiters do the same thing?

So, you know, what is it, what’s the saying? Don’t hate the the game. Don’t hate the player.

Melody Wilding: Yeah.

Lisa Rangel: hate the game. But at the same time, you know. Use the tools to your benefit. Using ChatGPT to write different parts of your resume is not necessarily bad. The same way 20 years ago, buying a book of resume samples and modeling your resume off of one of them, or using it as inspiration isn’t bad. But if you took that resume from the book 20 years ago and copied it as your own and put your name on top, if you do that today with ChatGPT, and don’t edit it, don’t make it your own. that’s wrong too. So it to me, ChatGPT is just an organic book.

Melody Wilding: Hmm.

Lisa Rangel: And so you still have to make it your own. You still can’t cut and paste it and not put your own thought into it. You, ’cause I’m telling you recruiter, I get recruiters who send me things, they’ll send me screenshots of resumes that are the same

Melody Wilding: Wow

Lisa Rangel: Somebody did the ChatGPT, here’s the goal, here’s what I want, here’s what I can do. Can you write this resume, da, da, da. Well, everyone’s doing that. So unless your prompt is super specific or super unique, or you’re taking that content and then making it your own, you’re gonna look like everyone else who’s applying for the same job and probably has similar tasks and similar sounding achievements.

So, you know, it’s the, the first mover advantage is gone, right? People who did it when it first came out to the mainstream in December, 2022, they looked brilliant and they saved a lot of time, but now everybody’s doing it. So now you gotta do something different. And if not, you’re gonna just look like everybody else. And the recruiters can see it on the backend. Absolutely. Can see it on the backend.

Melody Wilding: Exactly, and especially with something like ChatGPT, there’s some language and syntax tells that I’m recruiters are very aware of and can spot those a mile away. Yeah.

Lisa Rangel: I mean, even something as simple as LinkedIn replies. I’ll get, if I’m like announcing a webinar that I’m doing or sharing some content, you know, with individuals, like I’ll send it with a few individuals at the same time, I’ll see that, like I’ll get five responses to the exact same thing. Like, thanks so much with one exclamation point, because they use the default, you know, language that LinkedIn gives you in a response.

Well, again, I’m not saying I haven’t phoned it in once in a while myself sometimes, but like. The bottom line is if, if everyone is doing that, the person seeing it is seeing everyone do the same thing. And there’s no unique, you know, so I really, even on LinkedIn, I try to write like a unique response, you know, or even if I add like an extra exclamation point or use, you know, like, or whatever, like just, I try to make it look like I’m doing it and it doesn’t look like everyone else. And so that’s, you know, how do you make this stuff look like It doesn’t look like everyone else is the question you should be asking yourself if you’re gonna use these tools.

Melody Wilding: Absolutely. Yeah. And so we’re, we’re kind of leading to this idea of, how do you even start when it comes to updating your resume? Because I’m sure you work with a lot of people where it may be years, you know, they haven’t touched their resume in 10, 15 years. Maybe only even three to five, but still so much has changed then and it can feel.

A lot is riding on it. So you may resist it for a while, or it can feel so overwhelming to think, oh my gosh, how do I go back and find all this data and rewrite everything? So how do you coach people or work with people around that? Where do you start to actually make headway?

Lisa Rangel: Everybody’s a little different. You know, some people can start with what they want and then go find it. Others need to find what they want and then find the job and then see how they’re qualified. So it’s a little chicken or the egg, right? Which should come first. Everybody’s a little different. We ask for people to give us two, three job descriptions of what a representative of what they want to target.

You always wanna start with the end in mind, and then cherry pick the achievements that are going to appeal to those target jobs, and then obviously make sure those are the achievements you want to continue doing. The order in which that happens. Again, like I said, for everybody can be a little different.

Some people will start with what they want and then go find the jobs that have what they want. And some people are more attracted to the job and then morph themselves into it as long as it’s something that they wanna continue doing. Whatever process works for you, there’s no right or wrong. The end result is make sure you are starting with the end in mind, with being the target roles that you want.

And then cherry pick the achievements that are gonna appeal to those target employers, with the jobs that you want.

Melody Wilding: Hmm. And what do you, what do you do if you’re finding like target roles, but you don’t, you don’t have experience that feels like a perfect match for that.

Lisa Rangel: The key is to focus on two things, transferable skills. You know, what about your job is similar to what’s needed, and then help that reader connect the dots.

Melody Wilding: Mm.

Lisa Rangel: And show how the, the skills that you have are applicable in being transferred over to this particular role.

Melody Wilding: Mm-hmm.

Lisa Rangel: The second thing is, you know, research, you know, I would talk to people who maybe work there or look for people on LinkedIn who are currently doing the job.

What do they have listed? see how it cons inspire you to see that you actually may have more of what you need. and you’re just telling yourself that you don’t. and then if, if that all that research leads to you having conclusive evidence that you’re not ready for the job, well then take the steps, you know, whether it’s, ed educational credentials, certain projects within your work environment that stretch your skillset or allow you to demonstrate a new skill, you know?

Talk to your boss even about what’s needed for that next role, if it’s applicable, if you can do it internally versus looking externally, and see what you need to develop into that role. I’m probably going more into your realm, here. But, but it, you know, doing a resume doesn’t always have to be in a situation where you’re looking.

In fact, we encourage people to do it when they’re not looking, you know, be prepared is really a mantra I’ve lived by since I started my company in 2009. and. Talking to people about what’s next for you can help you be prepared. You know you wanna do the job you want, then get it that I said mantra I’ve always lived by.

And so find out what that is and then you can put it on the document once you’ve done it. But I’d say show transferable skills and do the research of what’s next, to see if you really have what’s needed, and you’re just telling yourself you don’t.

Melody Wilding: And where does a cover letter fit into that? Because you know, I, I’ve heard in the past that you can use, a cover letter as almost a bridge to help the hiring manager or the recruiter who’s looking at your resume more. So make the connection if you’re not sort of a one for one match. So are cover letter even a thing anymore? Do you still recommend them or work with people on them?

Lisa Rangel: So cover letters are a thing. I was a recruiter who I always often joke that I probably read 13 cover letters in 13 years that I went the, the length of time I recruited. I was not a recruiter who read cover letters. There’s recruiters and hiring managers who swear up and down by them. So, you know, to use that old metaphor of the tools in the toolbox, it’s something you need to have in case somebody swears up and down by it.

it can be a bridge of, of a discussion point, but I prefer to make sure that the resume is doing that bridge. The resume summary. The resume should be able to stand alone without a cover letter. That resume summary should be that bridge if you’re not spot on for a job that you are applying for, or you need to articulate the transferable skills that you have or you need to show why you’re making this jump.

If you’re career pivoting or looking for the next role and it’s not very obvious, have that cover letter sell, tell the story a little bit more robustly. But if you encounter a recruiter like me. That, that resume has to be able to stand on its own. And that to me is another tactic of a modern resume.

It needs to be able to stand on its own independent of a cover letter. But cover letters do have a place. they can tell a story a little bit more robustly than a resume can, and, but they should still be short, robust, should not be mistaken for long. and a cover letter obviously isn’t a piece of paper anymore that’s being sent.

It’s an email. And so you need to keep it like one scroll. You know, it should not be longer than a scroll. somebody should be able to read it on mobile with like barely a scroll or one scroll at the most. it should be short enough to be even be on a desktop screen, like most of it’s above the fold, so to speak, that you don’t have to scroll, and keep it short and make your point very quickly.

It should not interview for you. It should again, wet the appetite to make sure they wanna reach out to you to continue the conversation.

Melody Wilding: Hmm. And what I find people need to work on when I, when I look at cover letters for clients that they’ll run past me is sometimes you have to write what you think is a standard cover letter. Hello, I am applying for this job. Thank you for your consideration. You know, get it out. But then go back and delete those things because at least get yourself writing, get past the blank page syndrome, but then remove, as you were saying, you, you have someone’s attention for a moment.

Get rid of that fluff that it doesn’t say anything, right? It doesn’t add any value. Just get right into the meat of what you wanna say instead of repeating what every single other person is saying in theirs. Yeah.

Lisa Rangel: Well, I mean, this is to me the evidence that job seeking, right? Whether it’s LinkedIn profiles, resumes, cover letters, bios, whatever it is, thank you notes, follow up notes. This is all one big marketing exercise. And you know, one of the, one of the many rules of copywriting is typically when you do your draft, you know, scrap the first few sentences and that’s where the meat is.

And that’s probably what you’re gonna lead with. But you gotta like. You know, you gotta just get out, like you said, just start it. But then you have to look for where the meat is and it’s most likely in your second or third sentence, or second or third paragraph and you know, that sort of thing. Don’t commit to everything on your first draft.

And it’s, you know, it’s, this is a copywriting exercise. The subject line matters. Like all of it matters. And you know, if you are doing it yourself, you gotta put a copywriter hat on in addition to a job seeking hat. And if you’re gonna evaluate somebody like me to help you with it, make sure they have a marketing background because all of these things matter.

A recruiter is getting, you know, hundreds of resumes a day. Fortune Magazine in September, 2024 said that, resumes, applications are up 31% for online. You know, online application. Your resume needs to grab the attention in that top, third or fourth of the page. If you’re emailing someone, you’re, they’re getting maybe 10 or 15 or 20 or a hundred resumes in their inbox.

How does that subject line grab a, grab their attention, you know, so this is, these are all tactics that didn’t exist job seeking before Covid, frankly. I mean, we did it, but most people didn’t. Now it’s everywhere. You have to consider yourself a marketer if you’re job seeking.

Melody Wilding: That’s, couldn’t, couldn’t agree more. And I think most people overlook that or feel icky about and will say, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna sell myself. I don’t wanna just be a product. What you say?

Lisa Rangel: I’m bragging.

Melody Wilding: Yeah. I don’t want them to think of, what do you say when people come to you? And because you must face that resistance with

Lisa Rangel: Yeah, I mean it, I always tell them if it’s true and it’s factual, it’s not bragging, you know, don’t use superlatives. We’re not saying you’re the greatest CEO ever, or the CFO ever. You know, we’re saying you are a chief marketing officer who did X, like if you did XI. You are stating a fact. It’s not bragging, right?

So, never use superlatives in a resume. That’s probably a safe way to make sure you’re not bragging so,

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and it’s the, the way I think about it is it’s, it’s an exchange of value. Your, your goal is to convey to them, how can I help you solve your problem? Not look at how great I am. Right? It’s, it’s, here’s the skills I can offer, I can offer you, and I think a lot of people miss that. That they, at least I see this in, in cover letters, often when people do send them, is that it’s very much about.

Them as the job seeker. It’s not about the, why does this role exist in the first place? What, what gap or problem is the company trying to solve with hiring for this position, which I, I have found, speaks to them much more. I

Lisa Rangel: Right. Look at what problems they need solved or opportunities they have before them that should be capitalized on and lead with how you’ve done that for others. And if you can show how you fix problems that they, they have and or opportunities before them that you’ve helped others exploit, and I mean exploit in a good way, like ethically and whatnot, don’t mean that in a bad way.

Then if you focus on that acute opportunity or problem that they have, and you market yourself as a solution to that problem or opportunity, you’re gonna get a conversation. You know, it’s, it’s not, and, and any level job seeker that does that gets a little bit more traction than the one that’s saying, here’s everything I’ve done.

And now you figure out how you need somebody like me. And that’s what a lot of senior level people do. It’s, you know, they’re. They tend to market themselves on seniority versus achievements and then they get mad that ageism might be used against them. And it’s like, well, you’re leading with seniority.

What do you think that is? You’re leading with age. So seniority does not qualify any of us for any anything. You know at at any level. Like we all know people, 25 years experience that are amazing and some that really should retire. And we know people with five years of experience who are kicking it and others that were like, how’d you even get up outta bed in the morning?

You know? So by leading with achievements. You are not relying on anything that should not be factored into a hiring decision.

Melody Wilding: Hmm. Is there anything else we should keep in mind when it comes to fending off ageism on our resume? Because that, I’m hearing that concern more and more from some of my clients. Yeah.

Lisa Rangel: You know, again, if, if you lead with what cannot be considered age, then you are leading with things that are ageless. I’ve had people tell me, you know, they’ve gone through a round of, you know, interviews and then they’ll say like, oh, it must be ageism, I’m like, I’m like, you went through three rounds of interviews.

They know how old you were the whole time. Like, and did they select someone that was in your age bracket? Like that’s not ageism. That, you know, it either wasn’t your place, you’d made a mistake. It wasn’t the right experience, the other person was better. Like, don’t fill in the blanks with information that you don’t really have factual backup on. You know, I’m not saying don’t be disappointed, but don’t make it worse. Like, stick to the facts.

And getting hired is not just the resume. Like it’s not a magic elixir. It’s, you know, your resume needs to be, your messaging needs to be in line with your LinkedIn profile, you know, to get back to some, mistakes that some people make is they forget that the LinkedIn profile is just as important, nowadays. That was not as important maybe 10 years ago or five years ago even. But now they’re interchangeable. 98% of recruiters use LinkedIn to find talent and they find talent on LinkedIn. So those messages need to be in, in alignment.

how you show up on the interview, how you find people to set up the interviews. You know, if you’re, you, you can’t say as a a job seeker, you do things differently, but all you’re doing is submitting to job postings. ‘Cause you’re not doing it differently, then you’re doing it like everybody else. So network, reach out to people. That’s how most hires happen.

you know, coming across as a formidable candidate is not just about the document, it’s about how you show up online, show up in person, how you interact, how you communicate.

That long cover letter is gonna send a message that that’s how you’re gonna get emails sent to you if you’re hired, right?

So like every little bit of the job search process tells someone how you’re gonna be at work. And so if you keep that mindset as you go through the process and how is it to be and make it easy for someone to interact with you, that’s a subliminal message that is gonna be easier to work with you.

Melody Wilding: I never thought of it that way. That’s. That’s so true. And like you were saying, if you’re doing what everybody else is doing, you can’t expect to get different results. And so what I want, what I wanna get into for our last topic today is you have this process known as the meta META job search process.

So walk us through that. How does that help you stand out or conceptualize what you should be doing for your search?

Lisa Rangel: No, and I appreciate you bringing it up. I mean, you know, as a resume writing company, that’s how I started. And. Since I started in 2009 and you know, I primarily did resumes and then I saw the profiles were needed and then, you know, ’cause then I’d write their resume and I’d see that their profile was terrible.

And then I, so then I started doing resumes and profiles and then I realized they didn’t know how to look for the job and they really needed to learn how to execute a job search. ’cause it’s not just job postings and you can’t wait for third party recruiters to call you. You absolutely need to network.

And create your own opportunity. 60 to 65% of hires happen through networking at all levels. So if you’re only waiting for recruiters to call and only doing a job posting, waiting for job postings to show up, you’re literally eliminating more than half of the way hires happen, in your search. and then I realize people didn’t know how to interview. So, or negotiate the salary.

So the Meta Job Landing System, the acronym stands for marketing documents, effective Job landing tactic training, our three step interview prep process, and then advanced salary negotiation work. And this is where it, a, a, a great job happens because of all four stages happening well.

And even in negotiation of an, of an offer, getting a high salary doesn’t start with the offer. It starts from the first time you approach that company. You know, and I know your, your audience is, is all levels. So some of them at the lower level may not have been at the table for these conversations, but I’m gonna tell those people and I’ll know, I’ll get validation from the people of your audience that are a little bit more senior.

There are conversations that happen when they’re reviewing candidates that are like, we’re gonna have to pull out the big guns to court this one to work for us. And oh, we can probably get that one for cheap. You wanna look like the one they have to court and pull out the big guns for. That happens from how you approach people.

Who’s referring you in. What you look like online? You know, do you look like you haven’t paid attention to your profile in a long time and that you don’t have a lot of opportunities before you? You’re not being courted anywhere else. So it’s unfortunate that this exists, but it’s the reality. And so the key is to play that game better because then the first time you hit up someone at an organization applying for the role, if you’re doing it in the right way, looking the right way in an achievement like manner, you’re gonna be that person they go, oh, we want this person and we’re gonna pull out the big ones. Big, big guns to get them. And that’s what you want to happen. And that’s what the meta Job Landing system does.

Melody Wilding: Let me just ask, I wanna end on a question about networking job boards, because I, I think everyone’s got a little LinkedIn Easy Apply happy.

Lisa Rangel: The best and worst thing that happened in hiring,

Melody Wilding: yes

Yeah. Yeah. I’m sure every recruiter agrees with networking. This is, this is always like, I have seen people get really revved up for the job search. Like get their LinkedIn all cleaned up, get their resume done, and, and then it comes to a screeching halt when they have to start reaching out to people and networking. So any like words of wisdom from someone who is a reluctant networker in terms of, what do you say? I think that’s where people get really hung up is, what do you say, to reach out to someone maybe you used to work with, you met at a conference, someone who works at a company you would like to work with? ‘Cause a lot of people say, I don’t wanna grovel, I don’t want to

Lisa Rangel: Right. I don’t wanna beg.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, I don’t wanna beg and have it feel transactional. And so just what can you tell us to kind of bridge that gap?

Lisa Rangel: So, you know, if you don’t want it to be transactional, then you have to reach out to people before you need it and be interested in them. Be curious, you know, if it’s not intuitive and, and you know, I’m an introvert who plays well with extroverts and most people don’t believe me when I say that, but, it’s true.

And. You know, I put on my calendar like, go reach out to 20 people and then I’ll go do it. ‘Cause I can be a little bit of a task, you know, I wanna be a task finisher and I’ll set myself tasks and, and then if I don’t do it that day, I still have the task carry over to the next day. And I just keep it there until I do it.

Or even if I do five, five is still better than zero. So don’t look for perfection. you know, and if you send out, you know, five outreaches to people you used to work with, Hey, we haven’t talked in a while. We should get together. Even if it’s a zoom, it doesn’t have to be coffee. It doesn’t have to be, you do it in the way that you can do it. You know, don’t always look for the ways that you can’t. You know, I, I built my business, between eight and three when my kids were at school. I won’t get into a whole reason why that happened and but I could have easily said like, oh, there’s no way I can build a business. My kids are in school. I’m only around from eight.

Like I did calls from eight to three. You know, I if clients or people wanted to network after three, I mean, if they didn’t hear my kids screaming in the background, I didn’t take the call. Like I just, somebody wanted to talk at night. I was like, you have to hire a different writer. Like, just do it the way you have to do it, you know?

And if it’s. You know, on a weekend in the morning while you’re watching your kids play soccer or helping, you know, sitting at the bedside of you’re carrying your sick parents, who’s maybe not conscious of you being there talking to somebody, or maybe you do it over text because that’s the way you can do it.

Like however you can keep in touch with somebody, keep in touch with people on a regular basis. And just be interested in what’s going on in their life. Because then when you need something, you’ve probably helped them, you’ve probably listened to them, and not that you should do this because of the, you know, reci, reciprocity of it all.

But the bottom line is in a positive way, that’s how this works. If you’ve helped somebody, they’re gonna help you and. Just build it before you need it. There’s a Harvey McKay book that is a bazillion years old. That is like the best thing. It’s like build the well before you need it. it’s a great networking book and it can, it can help.

and then if you’re in the situation where you need to job search before you’ve built it, just reach out to coworkers and say, we haven’t talked in a while. How about we chat and yeah, it can come up that you’re looking, but say, listen, yeah, I should have done this earlier. But you know how it goes. And they’re probably in the same boat.

They would be in the same boat as you, that they’re not gonna reach out to you until they need it. So they’re prob, most people are gonna be human about it. And just talk as if you talked yesterday. And just again, stop telling yourself the stories that you can’t and just do it. And yes, there will be people who don’t take you up on the call.

There’ll be people who don’t get back to you. But if you do 20 outreaches and you get five responses, don’t focus on the 15, focus on the five and go find another 20.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, that would be a great response rate in

Lisa Rangel: And it would be a response rate. But you know, people don’t know that.

Melody Wilding: Exactly.

Lisa Rangel: And so they think, oh my God, 15 people can get back to me.

I’m like, no, focus on the five and go find another 20.

Melody Wilding: Exactly. Well, and to your point earlier of thinking it like a, thinking of it like a marketing exercise, you do have to, you do have to think of it that way, that you’re not gonna convert a hundred percent right. You’re

Lisa Rangel: Even people who know you, people are busy. Like they’re, they might be swamped, they might be, you know, whatever. So, like, you know, but just do it the way you can do it and, and don’t look for the 50 ways it won’t work. ’cause I’m telling you, you’ll find 51, right? So

Melody Wilding: So

important. So important for your mindset and your motivation. ‘Cause job searching it can be a long road. And love your advice to start before you’re ready, whether that’s or rather start before you need to, whether it is networking, updating your resume. You don’t want, why put yourself under the stress and pressure of like when you, when you can’t, you no longer wanna be at your job or you’ve been let go, whatever it is, why leave it until then when especially I’m, I totally agree with you.

I’m always advocating to keep your resume fresh. Do that when the achievements are fresh in your brain, you’re forget them later. So you might as well do it now.

Lisa, this has been great. I mean, just so many wonderful gems in here for

people

Lisa Rangel: really great questions. So thank you for helping me look good.

Melody Wilding: Yeah. Thank for giving us the inside track too, because it’s, it’s, you know, there’s a lot of job search and resume advice out there and it’s, think it’s really important people get it from someone who has been there before who has, helped so like thousands of executives now over so many years.

Where can people find you? I know you offer a ton of different resources, like free resources for people as well in addition to working with your team. So what are the best places to send them?

Lisa Rangel: you can get our free tools if you go to chameleonresumes.com. We have samples up there. We have a ton of free tools, video training. I really believe in helping people, whether they can, you know, hire us or not. Follow me on LinkedIn. I put up posts every day. I do an email. To my email list every day.

If you go to getdailycareertips.com and we do a, monthly chat with executives of which you’re gonna be a guest, at executivecareerchat.com. So you know, even finding me on LinkedIn, you’ll find all that.

Melody Wilding: We’ll also make sure everything is in the show notes. Thank you again for joining me.

Lisa Rangel: Thank you so much for having me. This was great.

Melody Wilding: Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of psychology at work. If you enjoyed the show, I’d be so grateful if you could take just a minute to rate and review wherever you are listening. It’s how we reach more professionals just like you. And if you’d like to see even more content on how to feel more self assured, grounded, and in control of your emotions and reactions at work, follow me on LinkedIn or head to the links in the show notes.