How do you become fully confident and in control of your emotions and experience at work? It’s by mastering your own psychology and that of others. On this show, we decode the science of success, exploring how to get out of your own way and advance your career to new levels without becoming someone you’re not. I’m Melody Wilding, best selling author, human behavior professor, and award winning executive coach. Get ready, and let’s put psychology to work for you.

Do you ever wish that each workday didn’t feel like an emotional roller coaster? Or that you could stop second guessing every little decision you make or idea you share? Well, I have great news. Resilient, my signature 3 month group coaching program, starts in January. And early enrollment opens soon.

So head to melodywilding.com /resilient to get on the VIP wait list. Resilient shows you step by step exactly how to go from insecure, helpless, overwhelmed, and feeling broken compared to your colleagues to feeling self assured, grounded, and in control of your emotions and reactions at work so you can finally feel comfortable in your own skin. Head to melodywilding.com/resilient to get on the VIP wait list now and be the first to know when enrollment opens for the next cohort. We always sell out and we’d love to help you regain your confidence at work and turn your sensitivity from liability into an asset. Today, we are tackling a topic that may give you anxiety just thinking about it.

We’re talking about restructures and reorgs. And let’s face it, these types of changes and shakeups, they are becoming more and more and more common. And they can really throw you off whether you’re the one in charge or you are at the mercy of what’s happening around you. And today, I’m so excited to have 2 of my friends, 2 fantastic former New York City media executives turned seasoned coaches joining us today. They have been there.

They have done that, and now they are helping others rebuild their teams and their careers when organizational change throws things off track. So whether you are in the middle of a restructure right now, you’re sensing there’s some changes on the horizon, or you just want to be ready for whatever comes your way, whenever that comes your way. This episode is going to be packed with a lot of practical advice for you. So I am thrilled to introduce our guests today, Mimi Bishop, Jackie Goudin. They are the cofounders of MGXW Consulting, which specializes in leadership consulting for modern workplaces.

So, Jackie, Mimi, welcome. Thank you so much. We are delighted to be here, Melody. It’s so nice to see your smiling face. Likewise.

Likewise. I think we’re gonna have a a lot of laughs on this episode as well, hopefully. Thank you. Yes. So we’re talking today about something you’ve built a specialty around in your work with organizations, which is navigating restructures, and reorgs.

But before we get in into that, I would love to hear from each of you because I have to assume you got into this because you you’ve been here. So what in your own careers drew you to this topic and wanting to focus in this area? Well, we both know how stressful it could be as an employee and also as a high achieving employee. So someone where you’ve really put your heart and soul into your work, and you are starting to get the sense that there are changes on the horizon and things are not real you’re not number 1, you’re not sure what’s going to be happening. And number 2, you’re not sure what your place could that be in that place.

And so knowing how important that the creating a space of safety for and consistency for the employees that are there, we know how important that is, but it’s overlooked very often. Right? So in mergers and acquisitions, we’re thinking about the finances and the procedures and the policies. Very often the culture and the individuals that are participating in this are overlooked. So that’s why we’re very passionate about making sure that the talent is really included in that conversation.

And and just to add on to that, I think the other part is that all we need to do is remember that people are people. And oftentimes, organizations don’t don’t think of that. And in this world where people stay in their jobs for a long time, they feel very connected to the company, more connected than, than generations behind us. But the gen our generation, gen x, and the generation above us, we feel very connected. So it feels almost personal.

So if we can help them not make it feel personal, also get people to understand the upside of some of those changes and what that can look like. And then and then manage, and try to create certainty even through uncertainty. That’s one of the things that that we strive to do. In my first my first job out of, college, I worked for a publishing company that was acquired. And I remember when the new person came in, he was so different.

I mean, his style was different. The company was different. It was huge. We were privately owned. And I I immediately did not feel comfortable.

And this gentleman didn’t do anything to make me feel comfortable. And and in fact, when I resigned, funny story, he called me up. They were based in North Carolina. He said, if you’re afraid to tell them that you don’t want the job because I want you to stay here and I’ll give you x number more, I’ll call them and tell them for you. And, like, I’m a grown woman, and I can tell them that I don’t want the job.

So I think part of that is is recognizing that some of it may be, navigating your own feelings and also seeing where the bright spots are and how it can help you make a transition you might not have done. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, because when when a change like that comes, especially if you’re not really expecting it, there is so much fear. It just it really throws you for a loop.

You what something you thought was was certain and maybe guaranteed or stable, all of a sudden that rocks your reality around, okay, what else don’t I know? And, actually, yeah, and I love the point about you helping create certainty for them, because that’s what we most want in those situations is we want a feeling of control of, of agency of certainty again. So I think that’s such a great way, a great way of putting it. Yeah. So speaking of which, what are some of the early warning signs that are restructure or reorg might be coming because these are becoming more and more common.

You know, I’m talking to clients all of the time where they’ll say, yep. We’re on our 3rd reorg of this year. Whether it’s a big one, sometimes there are many ones. Even if it’s not a whole reorganization, it’s just a restructure of a certain project or a team. So how do you kind of read the tea leaves or or sense kinda have your finger on the pulse if something like that is coming?

You know, the biggest indicator I always find is, like, the most obvious, which is lots of closed door meetings. Right? So especially if you have a culture where it usually is transparent And open. And open. And all of a sudden, you’re noticing that they’re kind of pulling back on some kind of information or lots of closed door meetings or lots of people coming in to the organization that you’re just you know, for meetings, that kind of thing, that you’re really not sure who they are.

They’re not clients. That is always an indicator that something could be going on because the just these outside sources are, you know, in the space and kind of consulting. Yeah. And I would also add that you also wanna look at, and understand and have a pulse on other departments besides your own. Oftentimes, we stay within our department.

So we don’t have or notice the indicators because we may not be talking to the sales department or the accounting department. But if you are really truly collaborating with all the departments, you’ll pick up on things and recognize some inconsistencies that all of a sudden start showing up where there may have been some consistencies before. Yeah. And that’s just the best practice also to always be building relationships outside your direct reporting line, outside your direct area of expertise. That’s how you get just more collaboration.

You’re building better relationships. You are able to be a little bit more nimble and aware of these kinds of situate situations that I know very often, especially myself as an introvert. When I was in corporate, I like to just go in, do my job, be with my people, have lunch. I do. I do.

But I have realized the value. Yeah. Thank God I choose my people. But also I’ve learned to really enjoy the the experience of connecting with other people. But then I make sure as the introvert, I have plenty of space to kind of decompress because I need that.

But, you know, for me, it was like I really want it when I was in corporate, especially I love to just have my lunch breaks to myself because I needed to regroup. I really should have spent more time building relationships outside of the department. So that was, you know, something that I I learned. Yeah. You both are I wish I had I wish we had had this conversation, you know, 10, almost maybe 15 years ago because I’m just thinking back to my my last, you know, corporate role before I I went full time for myself, and I missed so many of these signals I was, I was laid off from that role.

And I think looking back on it now, for example, there was a period of time where external people started coming in, we’re bringing in this firm to do a compensation evaluation. And now when I look back on that, I think, was my boss trying to hint at something for me? And I just didn’t pick up on it sort of in my blissful ignorance. I didn’t put 22 together that the compensation discussion meant your compensation might be affected early. Exactly.

Yeah. And and, also, I love the point about expanding your sphere of relationships, because you both know, my new book is about managing up. And I think a myth people have is that managing up is about your boss. And it’s not especially in this environment where everything is matrixed. There are different forms of power.

You you have to have relationships with those other influencers. Even if those influencers don’t have a certain fancy title, they may have information and intel that you need. So you do need to have those relationships. And you were talking about the upside as well. And that was something I just wanted to circle back to, which is what is some of the upside that can come out of this for someone?

Because it’s very easy to get just very tunnel vision on, like, all of the ways this is disruptive and hurts your career or hurts your team, your organization. What are some of the upsides you’ve seen? So one of the things that we see often is, when there’s a merger acquisition, the that the finances for the original company weren’t as strong as you might have thought they were. Right? There were some situations or circumstances where there were maybe a lot of loans or maybe there was you know, the stock wasn’t doing so well.

So when that happens, the the the reality is if they didn’t decide to move towards a merger acquisition, there may not be a company at all. So recognizing that that that is could have been the other side. And, also, when there’s bigger merger acquisition, oftentimes, there’s more resources. So there could be better health care. There could be better, 401 k.

There could be better matching. There could be better vacations. So thinking about what could be better is always we automatically as humans, and you know this from from all of the work that you do, we go to the negative. And humans hate change. We all do no matter what.

So the reality is change doesn’t necessarily mean that. And if it’s a reorg, you may not like the way it’s it’s laying out, or you might be nervous about your new boss or what this means for your responsibilities. But if you can go in the into the new the new organization is with curious and curiosity, you may be pleasantly surprised. And if you go back to the name of your book, if you trust yourself to be really good at what you do, you don’t have to stay if it doesn’t work for you. And if there is a reorg and you’re reorg ed out, trust your capabilities to get a new job, even if that wasn’t exactly what you want.

And that’s hard, but 99% of the people can get a new job. It may look different. It may take some time, but that’s the reality of it. And when you hear it in those terms, you can start real realizing that this may be a good time for me to greet regroup and and try to find the upside of it. Right.

The other thing is the opportunity and skill. Right? So you may be put into a situation where you are your position is changing slightly or there are new people coming in that have different skill set, and that’s an opportunity for you to grow. And I think we should all always be taking it upon ourselves to be growing and building our skill sets always because that’s how we stay relevant. We stay fresh.

And, yes, we lend a certain amount of expertise in our background. But being open to these new opportunities of learning, who knows where that can bring you? So that could be very exciting as well. Yeah. And just to share a quick story.

You know, I’ve I’ve seen when merger and acquisition in particular happens, you can zig while others are zagging. And by that, I mean, I had one client. This was probably a couple years ago now. I time is a really weird thing since the pandemic, so it’s hard to judge. But his organization was or they acquired a new organization, and everyone was sort of flocking to this one kinda hot area that it that it opened.

And, you know, he saw, okay. Everyone else is over here, but there are these lingering issues left from the merger that if I actually focus on these well, the long story short is that he did focus on that, and he really carved out a role for himself kind of being a new specialist in this area and really made himself a right hand person for the leadership because it was so valuable to the leadership that someone was was, you know, crossing i’s and dotting no. Crossing i’s and dotting i’s. That’s like I would always talk about dividing and conquering, but I usually say conquering and dividing. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Crossing t’s and dotting i’s. It just it made him the right hand person and eventually led to him making partners. So it was really just a fantastic how it kinda opened up. Yes.

It opened up new opportunities, but in an unexpected way. Yeah. Right. And that’s why if you approach it with curiosity, you’re able to identify those gaps that you and your skill set may be able to fill. And oftentimes, instead of that, everyone gets into, you know, fight, flight, or freeze as opposed to pause, identify, you know, evaluate, and move.

And anytime someone feels stuck in those situations, we always say, just take one action. One small action can start to get you unstuck. And so in those situations, instead of just say staying where you are and feeling like you have no control, taking an action can, make you feel like you have some control even if you don’t. There’s a reason this show is called psychology at work. It’s about managing your own mindset.

Yes. That’s a big part of it, but also understanding and influencing the psychology of others. And the person who has the biggest impact on your day to day success is your boss. That’s why I am so excited to announce that my upcoming book is available for preorder now. Managing Up, How to Get What You Need from the People in Charge is your indispensable guide to mastering 10 conversations that will earn you more authority, freedom, and confidence at work.

Head to managing up.com to preorder your copy now and get access to over $300 worth of bonuses, including a free ticket to the live 3 day promotion playbook master class I’m hosting December 4th through 6th. That’s managing up dot com to get your copy and claim your bonuses now. We’re talking a lot about how a merger or a reorg can be an opportunity, but I’m sure you’ve definitely seen organizations or leaders or even employees who are navigating through this. I’m sure you’ve seen people make a lot of mistakes. So what are some of the most common pitfalls we should watch out for?

Oh, I’m just gonna add I’m gonna start really quickly and say one thing. I think one of the the things that frighten us most when we work in this space is there are some companies that understand and value the the value talent, right, the human contribution. And then there were some people, and we were just with a couple just recently, and they were like, well, everyone’s replaceable. And so that to me is is a red flag. Right?

If you if you are selling a company to someone like that. So some of those red flags are, are being around someone new. The pitfall is being around someone new who doesn’t value people and who values results only, and that that’s a big thing that I see often. Right. I mean, what we know are the results are always because of the people.

And so a smart leader will go in and really start to understand what the culture is and understand who the people are so that there is less discomfort and uncertainty in what this is about. And, also, you’re getting the trust of people also. Right? Because listen. What happens is in times of change, we are all going to feel this discomfort and uncertainty.

But if you can start to minimize that by building the the seeds of trust by planting them in the beginning, that really helps people’s comfort level. It gets people to really buy in to what you’re doing, and it it really starts to pave the way for a much smoother merger. What a great example of understanding psychology and using it to your advantage of of knowing how people are naturally disposed to being resistant to to risk or any change and diffusing that so that, you know, their guards come down, but not in a way to manipulate them or abuse that, but in a way to let’s let’s try to get all on board together. Let’s hear out your concerns. Let me try to work together to figure out what middle ground we can come to.

Again. And it’s that openness also. And the other thing that I’ll add also, this is what I wanted to say before. You know, there’s always going to be discomfort that comes up with all of this stuff, and that’s a very natural reaction. So being able to acknowledge that for ourselves and say, of course, this is scary and uncomfortable, and maybe I’m up at 2 in the morning worried about of course.

But there’s also opportunity here. So, really, you know, and kind of embracing both can be true at the same time. Yeah. And that actually leads me to I think a lot of people find themselves in a weird position during a restructure reorg, merger acquisition where they have to at once manage the emotions of people around them, the stress, the anxiety of their team, but they’re also going through it themselves. They’re wondering where they fit in and where their place is and what it means.

So how do you counsel people or or work with people in organizations that are kinda getting that that double whammy of they have to be an emotional support system and and kinda soothe and coach other people, but they also have their own stuff going on. I I think you you will appreciate this because as a coach, Mel, you know that there are times you’re going through stuff, and you’re sitting there across from your client, and you still have to show up for them. And I you know, one of our clients that we say, anxiety should only roll up and never down. So if you are feeling anxious, find a place and a release that is not anyone below you because your job is to absorb that, to manage that and to help create some sort of, trust with them and be as transparent as you can be. Even if you can’t tell them everything, tell them as much as you can so that they feel like they’re getting a glimpse behind the curtain, and that will help their anxiety.

And then for your own anxiety, 2 things I always say is, 1, give yourself grace to feel the feelings that you need to feel, because we don’t have to be strong. We just need to be strong in a certain place at a certain time and find your person. It could be inside the organization, someone above you. It could be outside the organization. It could be a therapist.

It could be a coach. But find your person that can help you open your perspective and hear your emotions and your own anxiety and help you navigate through that. The other thing is be intentional. So really start your day with as much intention as you can bring to it and think of it as a container. Right?

So when you’re more present and you are really being more intentional to the situations that are going on, you’re not kind of 10 steps ahead or thinking about what happened 2 weeks ago, you’re able to really just deal with what’s happening right now, it helps you be intentional and also really shift the energy that you want to. How do I want to approach this? You’re responding. You’re not reacting. Right.

In that sense, it goes back to that sense of of agency and, you know, control may not be exactly the right word, but that you’re you’re happening to the situation. It’s not happening to you. Correct. I’m looking for some semblance of routine or ritual or groundedness with everything that’s kinda swirling and up in the air. Sounds like just having that foundation for yourself is so important about how you approach every interaction you have after that.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. That’s exactly right. And then and, you know, and and sometimes you just need to think, what can come up?

How am I going to address it just so you feel prepared? Because most of the time, it doesn’t come up. Right? But we can’t worry about it. But sometimes for some people preparing you know, there are some people who worry, and worrying isn’t gonna help unless you think, how do I, right, how do I prepare?

And then then you feel prepared where you feel like you can tackle it. So it doesn’t mean nobody’s gonna tell you to stop worrying because that’s not realistic. But how do you manage the worry? Is it a log? You know, we often tell people to do something we call a worry log, which is, you know, every time you worry about something, write it down.

And at the end of the week, take a look at how many things actually happen. I think it’s, like, 7%. I do. Right? So, you know, it starts to build the new neural pathways to say, wait a second.

What is the benefit of me worrying about this when over the last month, really none of these worries came through? Or if they did, I was not any more prepared because I was worrying about it, and that’s the other side. Darn. Alright, Melody. I wish so Melody and I are, though, we’re both nodding our heads because we’re people that like to prepare.

And to a certain extent, right, instead of you spending all of that energy worrying and, like, letting your mind start to spin. Alright. What can I do to prepare the best I can? Right. And then just let go.

And Right. You know, trust myself to be able to respond in that moment. Exactly. That that is confidence. That is confidence with believing in your resourcefulness, and I will figure it out with whatever comes to pass.

Even if it is my worst case scenario, I’m let go. Then I’ll brush up my resume, and I’ll start networking, and I’ll figure it out. And that that gives you the ultimate confidence. Yeah. Yeah.

I just wanna go back to Jackie, you were mentioning a moment ago, letting people know as much as you can. So is there any way I have a lot of clients who stumble on that, who either they know more and they can’t say more. Mhmm. They may know there are cuts coming, but they don’t know exactly who. Right.

And they they don’t know how to navigate that, or they may have no idea what’s going on, and they don’t wanna look completely out of touch to their team. So just any advice or thoughts about how do you navigate those scenarios when, yeah, you’re trying you wanna be transparent, but there may be limitations to that. Yeah. I think the so there’s a couple things we always say is one is how do you be authentic to yourself and how you feel about that communication and how much you can share. The second thing we always say is when you when you know stuff that you cannot share, you need to be loyal to your integrity of yourself.

And while you are loyal to your team, you need to be loyal to your core values first. So if you can put it into those terms, it kind of changes that from I’m being, you know, I’m being distrusted by my team. I’m not being fair. I’m not being honest. What I always say is, like, what is the core value?

And the core value is integrity. And if that’s your core value, let’s look at that and come at it from that lens. If you don’t know anything, it could sometimes feel like it is a threat to your status. Mhmm. And, I always say the reality is the less people that know, the less there is a leak.

So it’s not about you. It is about them trying to manage as few people to do some big change with as few people in the know as possible because there’s always a leak. And so it’s not you. It’s about the organization trying to figure out where are the places that I have to, not where are the places that would be nice. So it doesn’t mean that they don’t trust you, but maybe you’re not necessary in this instance, or we can get this done with your boss without you being involved.

So it’s it is about changing the perspective to understand that this is business. And while it feels personal, we all are doing a job, and and that has to come to the bottom line. And I’m I’m all about a human first approach, but I also feel like we are we are all humans who are put in these positions that aren’t comfortable for us. We can’t weigh it on our weigh, you know, weigh it heavily on us if we think about integrity. And the last thing I wanna say that’s really important to address is for those that during the reorg or a merger act or whatever, those that are that are let go versus those that are that remain.

There is truly survivor’s guilt. So organizations also need to be very mindful of that and put programs and trainings and communications in place to help those that are still there be able to navigate the emotions that they’re feeling because that is an important piece of it. Without that emotional wellness in the workplace, we aren’t getting to the productivity, we’re not getting to the results, and we’re not getting to that transparent, authentic and connected group and team that we’re trying to. Especially with the people that you’re starting to try to integrate them with. They’re very you know, they come in very emotionally siloed.

And you want to create a place where there is, as much as you can, a soft landing for that. Yeah. Yeah. How do you build or rebuild rather a sense of trust? And and, I mean, we can talk about it from a leadership perspective.

How do you how do you rebuild trust with your team? But I see it more so where people have that disillusionment after a change has happened. And, again, especially if they weren’t expecting it, it came a little bit out of the blue, or they feel that maybe the powers that be weren’t as forthcoming as they could have been. How how do you move on from that distrust, frankly? Yeah.

We always say, this is when you really everyone from the top down and really starting from the top has to start creating a culture of questioning. So how do you create this culture where tell me what you’re thinking about this? Tell me how you’re feeling about this? Don’t be afraid to ask people how they feel. And you will notice if you do that, people can say how they feel even if it’s not good and move past it quicker.

Because what people wanna do in any situation is feel like they’re heard. And if we’re not addressing it, if we pretend it pretend it doesn’t happen and sweep it under the rug, that seed of doubt is going to grow. So what we wanna do is we wanna pull the root from the we wanna pull the weed from the root, and the only way to do that is by asking questions that are not easy, but are going to help people feel like they’re being heard. And that’s what you know, creating this openness. And then the other piece of that is how do you create more consistency in the new structure?

Right? Consistency builds certainty, and certainty builds trust. So what are the new consistencies you can build so people can start feeling like they know what to expect that’s coming next, and that feels really comfortable for them. And I would just add to that circling back to the the conversation piece. When you are asking someone how they feel, you’re really asking them.

It’s not like just a lip service kind of thing. You’re really listening to them, and you’re not judging their response. So if they are forthright in saying, I’m miserable, I hate this new structure, or I’m scared, or I’m afraid I’m not going to be able to, you know, catch up or any of that kind of thing. Just really I know it’s a very coachy thing to say, but create that space for them without judgment. Because if you then put your own point of view on it, that the it’s not this is about creating a safe space for someone to share how they’re feeling.

That will create trust. If you’re trying to then convince someone not to feel that way, that’s where it starts to break down. And and, yeah, and to add to that, don’t try to fix it. Right. Right?

So just don’t try to fix it. And then and then also share back your feelings. Right? We talk about this all the time when we do trainings, Melody. It’s like, I love Brene Brown.

And yet this when she came out with vulnerability, we always say, like, these these things that people hold on to that it kind of swings the pendulum one way too much. Right? So when vulnerability came out, everyone thought they should be crying in the office. And so all of a sudden, crying in the office all the time became okay. And that’s that’s the pendulum swinging way too much one way.

And so what vulnerability really is is you as someone of authority sharing some real emotion. So not only saying to them, how are you feeling? Do you I would love to share with you how I’m feeling about this because I’m uncomfortable too, or I was worried about my position, or I the I don’t know if this is the right direction for this group, but I’m going to trust that we’re gonna try this out and try to make this work together as a team because I believe in the power of our team. So really being vulnerable. And that doesn’t matter.

I mean, that that’s as from a leadership perspective, but even with each other on your team, being able to be vulnerable and creating that place where no one’s trying to fix you. Not everyone everyone wants someone to come in and fix it. They just sometimes wanna be heard and recognizing that difference. Yeah. Absolute I mean, self disclosure is appropriate.

Self disclosure. Right? Selective self disclosure. It it goes a long way to also humanizing you that you’re not this kind of, you know, untouchable person on high that, yeah, I was worried about the same things, and I have I I trust that we’re gonna get through this. And so it’s like it’s it’s a message of understanding with a message of of hope and sort of vision for the future.

Yeah. Yes. That’s great. A combination. Mhmm.

Yeah. And even hope. I like that. Yeah. And one of the last questions before we wrap up that I wanted to ask you is something that I see happen all too often, which is after a reorg or a restructure, let’s say certain roles have been eliminated, the people remaining are saddled with that work.

That 2 or 2 or 3 roles get condensed down to 1 person’s role. And, obviously, there’s there’s a lot of organizational level things we could talk about there. But how do you deal when you’re the person that that’s happening to? When 2 of your colleagues have been let go and you found out you’re absorbing their projects. Yeah.

It’s really hard, and I It’s frustrating. It’s hard. It’s frustrating. There’s no pat answer for this, but there are some things that everyone can do. And a couple of them is to think and have a very direct conversation with your direct report to say or your your boss to say, what is what is the end goal on this?

Like, how long is this going to stay this way? Is this a forever thing? Is this until we replace thing? Is this a are we gonna reorg this this, these projects? Or are we gonna reorg after these projects?

Here’s why. Because when somebody can see the end of the sprint, they’re more likely to sprint. If they don’t see the end, it becomes an impossible overload, and that’s where burnout comes from. So that’s the first thing. The second thing is really being able to learn to prioritize and overcommunicate.

So the last thing your boss wants is surprises. So all of a sudden, you got 5 projects. They’re they all have similar deadlines, and you’re not communicating the expectations, and they’re not communicating to you. So really opening up that dialogue and saying, these are the this is what I expect I can get done. This is the reality of it.

What what do we need to do to what is the priority? Is this okay? You know, I’m gonna push this to the side because this isn’t feasible. Let me tell you how many hours that and and explain to the boss what it takes to get a project done. Oftentimes, there’s a disconnect between what is assumed the work needs like, the time that it takes to get work done and what it actually takes.

So the more you can be transparent with that, the more you can get your boss to be open and understanding, in that scenario. The other thing I would add is just really challenge yourself to be clear on what really absolutely has to get done. Sometimes we feel, well, it’s all gotta get done. Alright. What has to get done by today in the next hour?

Or really being clear in that way helps. I remember sometimes being in the office till 10 o’clock at night working on something I felt had to be done. It it really didn’t. So really being clear on that will help prioritize, essentially. And because it often is in our minds.

Mimi. Right. Mimi, you’re absolutely right. Oftentimes, it’s in our minds, and it reminds me of, I I’ve talked about this a lot. And and one of the reasons why I stepped off of my big career in New York City is because my daughter was 3, and I came home from work.

And my husband was like, oh, I put Peyton in the bed, and she asked when you were coming home from your business meeting your your, business trip. And I was like, I wasn’t on a business trip. I went to the office early. I worked late for 3 days in a row, and I was like, what was so important that I felt compelled and I couldn’t put my finger on it. I had just been so programmed to go all in all the time that I didn’t know how to pull back.

And I think that’s a big thing that we need to recognize in ourselves, which is how much of this are we are is self imposed and how much of this is an external factor, and really be honest with yourself about that too. So it was a that’s that’s a great point, Mimi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The fall the false urgency is real. Right? Yes. And I’ve I’ve also learned the hard way that, you know, you don’t put off once in a lifetime moments for work that can be done tomorrow. Because the work will be there, but those those once in a lifetime moments, you you can’t get those back.

Yeah. And so yeah. And and one other quick thing I’ll say is just know that not everything has to be perfect. Know what the baseline is. Right?

Because sometimes I know. I love to to be heard. She’s like tweak she’ll tweak a presentation that I was like, can we get to the meaning of the presentation? Because if the dot is there or there, it doesn’t matter. She’s gotten so much better.

I have. She doesn’t but but, yeah, like, I can really fall into that, and I’ll have to tell them. And I feel my anxiety coming up, and I’ll say, okay. What is the baseline for this? There are some things where it has to be perfect.

This is not one of them. So really always challenging yourself is a great way to deal with that. Such a good point, Mimi. I’m always having conversations with my clients about, like, where can you give b plus work? Where is b plus work just fine?

Because you’re giving a plus plus plus across the board. Right. And that’s not sustainable, and that’s what that’s not what’s needed. Yeah. And so it’s it’s a good exercise to put yourself through even if it’s even if it’s hard.

Right. And these are things we have control over. Right. And we think we don’t. Right?

We think like, oh, we don’t have control over our workload. Well, you might have more control than you think. I am. And you do have agency on how you do it. And they always say, like, what, you know, what you’re focusing on is the time you’re putting in going to move the needle or give you the ROI that’s necessary.

So as entrepreneurs, it’s always like, okay. Sales has to come first because without that, the lights don’t stay on. So while we’d love to organize and while we’d love to create new ideas, the reality is the sales have to come first. So that’s that’s always what you have to be thinking about. Like, what what is going to be giving the best results, and how do I prioritize that?

No matter what where you are in the organization. Yeah. What is the highest and best use of your energy? Yes. Right.

Yeah. Yes. And then how do you delegate stuff that drains your energy? That’s another big thing that we we We talk about. Big proponents of, you know, how many times the research shows that burnout happens when your tasks are not aligned with your skills and your tasks are not aligned with your energy.

So how do you make sure? And sometimes you have to do that, but other times, you can start delegating more things or have a direct conversation with your boss and say, this is taking me takes me much longer to do a spreadsheet than it takes this one over here. So why am I doing that? And I’ll do something that really, like, trying to realign that. Because a lot of times, your skill sets are very complementary, and you can reassign in a way that works for everybody.

Spreadsheet’s my idea of a party. Well, maybe I got a bunch of I got a bunch of Excel tasks for you that that’s not He’s gonna have a party. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Well, I was this was so much fun.

Like I said, lots of laughs like I expected. Where can people find you, connect with you, bring you into their organization? What’s the best place to send them? Sure. So there are a couple of places.

First of all, we’re both on LinkedIn. We will share our, LinkedIn handles with you so you can put them in the show notes. You can also head over to mgxwconsulting.com. And it stands for modern, genuine, exceptional workplaces. So if you because MGXW is a mouthful.

Yeah. And lastly, we do have a consistency checklist that we share with our clients. So this is good for a multitude of situations, but it’s really good also for mergers and acquisitions. And it’s a way that lets you look into 6 different areas that we’ve identified where you really want consistency, and that will help minimize a lot of these things that we’ve been talking about. So I will share the link with you, and you can put that in the show notes as well.

Great. Because I was going to ask you what what some of those consistency actions look like. So it’s perfect to You have that resource. You answered my question. Well, thank you both so much for coming on.

Always so good to chat with you, and just I’m grateful for you being here. Thanks, Nilie. Thank you so much. We are delighted to be here and as always had a lot of fun and learned a lot. Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of Psychology at Work.

If you enjoyed the show, I’d be so grateful if you could take just a minute to rate and review wherever you are listening. It’s how we reach more professionals just like you. And if you’d like to see even more content on how to feel more self assured, grounded, and in control of your emotions and reactions at work, follow me on LinkedIn or head to the links in the show notes.