Melody Wilding: You’re sitting in your office at the end of another 10 hour day, and you are feeling both completely exhausted and totally wired. You’ve handled every crisis that came your way. You made sure everyone on your team felt supported. You’ve anticipated every problem before it happened. And by all external measures, you’re crushing it right?

But on the inside, it’s this draining rollercoaster of second guessing your decisions, replaying that one comment from your boss already dreading tomorrow. If this sounds like your typical Wednesday, you’re going to relate deeply to today’s podcast guest. I’m talking to Elise, a graduate of Resilient, my three month program that shows sensitive strivers that is deep thinking and feeling top performers, how to double their confidence in 90 days, and.

Elisa’s story perfectly captures something I see constantly among the leaders we work with. How the very qualities that make you exceptional at your job can start to flip, and start working against you. To become the very things that start to chip away at your energy and your confidence over time.

Elise came to Resilient after taking burnout leave from her leadership role in higher education. And this wasn’t someone who was struggling to perform or who was failing to meet expectations. This was quite the opposite. She’s someone with 20 years of experience, someone other people turned to who had built her entire career on being the reliable, thoughtful leader everyone else could count on.

Elise is going to share how she returned to work and totally retooled her approach to managing herself. How she got out of the trap. I call procrast learning, understanding what she needed to do intellectually, but struggling to actually implement changes because. She was waiting to feel more ready, more confident, more certain.

What you’re going to hear in our conversation today is how Elise broke through that barrier. How she learned to trust her instincts again. How she developed the ability to take imperfect action. And how she transformed her relationship with her sensitivity from something that felt like this burden she had to shoulder into something she now sees as her greatest professional asset.

The timing of this conversation is perfect because doors for the Fall cohort of Resilient are opening in just a few weeks, if you are listening to this at the time of recording. And resilient helps you break the cycle that’s so many high achieving professionals find themselves trapped in. Working incredibly hard, but feeling like you’re not advancing as quickly or enjoying your work in your life as much as you should. Because you’re getting in your own way. You’re constantly doubting whether you’re really as capable as everyone else seems to think you are.

This program has been tested. It has been proven over five years, plus over 500 plus clients. And Resilient provides truly a best in class coaching and training experience for mid-level, mid-career Sensitive Strivers. This isn’t just me saying this. This is what we hear from our alumni every day. And they say this because the program includes a very actionable science-based curriculum with concrete tools to help you make faster decisions, to speak up more confidently to perform in demanding environments.

We have live coaching calls every Tuesday where you can get real time solutions from me and my team on specific workplace challenges you are facing. So you are applying the techniques and getting other guidance directly to your situation instead of just guessing what might work. We have live discussion calls every week so you can avoid months of trial and error and accelerate your results with accountability.

Instead of just consuming, consuming, consuming more. You get a personalized assessment so you can set goals, you can track your progress. We have a private community where you can get daily coaching, and you get access to my entire Coaching Tools Library and so much more.

Now to celebrate the doors opening for Resilient, I am also hosting a totally free event on September 9th. It’s called High Performance Under High Pressure, and during this training I’m going to share with you six mental shifts elite leaders use to say confident, calm, and in control.

Because, let’s face it, you are too senior to still be shrinking in every meeting. You are too skilled to be overworking, to earn approval. You are too smart to be this exhausted all of the time.

So remember, RSVP For the free High Performance Under High Pressure training, all you have to do is head to melody wilding.com/high performance, or you can also find the link in the show notes. If you’re going to want to be there live, because that’s where we offer the best pricing, the best bonuses for Resilient.

And again, that’s melody wilding.com/high performance. So with that, let’s dive into my conversation with Elise.

 Elise, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

Elise Le Brun: Thanks for having me.

Melody Wilding: Yes. And before we dive into your story, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.

Elise Le Brun: Absolutely. Yeah. I grew up in Australia and I moved to Canada about 25 years ago. I work in the higher educations. Specifically in the student affairs area in British Columbia, Canada. And I’ve been working in higher ed for about 20 years in various roles various institutions mostly in either a management or a, a leadership capacity.

And I’ve been focusing on roles that support students with activities outside the classroom. So whether it’s athletics, student leadership, student development, or engagement.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, very cool. Very cool. And so bring me back to when you started Resilient. What was going on for you during that time that made you think I need some support with this?

Elise Le Brun: Yeah, great question. And I was, I was thinking about that. So it was towards the end of 2021 I was in the final month of being on leave due to emotional burnout. And it was a result of many factors. I think working online through the pandemic where we had multiple back-to-back meetings often without a break working very early mornings or well into the evening to accommodate the different time zone changes.

And then also making a transition into a new role and a new institution. And so at that time I was going through a process of exploration, trying to figure out, well, well, what led me here and what could I have done differently? And then also, what’s next? For me harmony and relationships are really important and I’m really most comfortable when I can bring a coaching or mentoring approach to the work.

And I found that that was very challenging to sustain throughout the pandemic. So where I was pre resilient was I was led to like rumination and overthinking. I had a lot of sleepless nights and essentially nothing that was productive. I had identified myself as someone who had the potential to be impactful, but I totally lost my confidence in the workplace.

So I was looking for a solution or solutions to, to help me navigate that period of my life.

Melody Wilding: Yeah. And th thank you for sharing that too, because we’ve had many people come into the program, either who are going into a leave, who are coming out of a leave many times for burnout. And so I think it was very wise view at that point to realize when I go back. I wanna be able to do things differently.

And so what were some of those goals you had for yourself? How were you hoping to approach your work differently as you were coming back into it? 

Elise Le Brun: , , I really wanted to learn how to trust my instincts and, and really be able to, to use my experience because I had been working for a long time. I wanted to be more assertive. When working with teams, but I also wanted to give myself grace. I thought that if I could achieve that, that it would significantly reduce my stress, it would improve my emotional health.

And and so I was looking for, you know, strategies and, and, and approaches to that. Yeah, I, I think I, I really wanted to approach my management leadership style in a way that I could be, it could be more sustainable for me so that I could do my best work and also do my best work when, when working with others.

Melody Wilding: Yeah.

and you, you are someone who is always learning, you’re always challenging yourself, you’re always wanting to grow more, and so you’re, you’re into, I know you read a lot of books. You consume a lot of that personal growth. And so what made Resilient stand out? ’cause there’s, there’s a lot of options out there.

So what made you think that this is going to be the thing I’m gonna try? 

Elise Le Brun: Mm, well, well, I’ll take you back to to when I first even before Resilient. So during my time off, I was, I was reading a number of books and, you know, invariably when you read books then you get recommendations. You know, here’s another book that might be of interest and Trust Yourself came up as one of the suggested reads and I was curious.

So I, I, I got the book and I devoured it in like two days, which is not usual for me. I usually take more time and it was like every time I turn the page, so much of what I was reading in the book really resonated with what I’ve been experiencing. Not just in, in my current state, but just over the years in management and leadership roles. , I love the scenarios that were in trust yourself, and then also just the practical tools and tips. I think in a lot of books that I’ve read, there’s a lot of theory with not a lot of, okay, so now I have this theory. Now, now what do I do with that?

And I felt like with, with Trust Yourself I really got a good sense of, of, of kind of how to do it. But when I, when I found out about Resilient where we actually could walk through a 13 week program at the time of how to do it I, I wanted to sign up right away.

Melody Wilding: I’m so glad trust yourself resonated with you and I’m sure being a sensitive striver. It spoke to you. Now, yes, Resilient is still a 13 week program at this time. So that that was 2021, when you think back on that, what were some of the most valuable parts of it for you specifically? 

Elise Le Brun: When you talk about sensitive striver which I really loved learning about that. And I, and I really loved going through sort of the diagnostic tool to sort of identify which, which elements of the striver Sensitive Striver was I out of balance in.

, After I had learned more about it, it made absolute sense. That as someone who is a people pleaser perfectionist, someone who overthinks things so emotionality and one of the areas was like emotionality and then also thoughtfulness.

They were completely out of balance. When I went into the program. , Those were the things that I really wanted to sort of address at the forefront.

 I think for me, being exposed to the mantra start before I’m ready and take imperfect action that really propelled me to, to jump in and not just step into discomfort. I found myself, learning how to give myself permission to do things or say things that that I should be doing and asserting myself as a manager, even though it was incredibly uncomfortable.

So I think just like riding a bike for the first time, I was wobbling all over the place. But the more I did it, I I, I realized that that the better I would be. And also that term that I learned for from you in the course was the term of procrasti-learning that is me.

Like I will read so many books and I will understand conceptually, but then just it’s having that courage to sort of take that next step is where I would sort of hit a standstill. So the start before I’m ready and take imperfect action was one of the things that, that really stood out to me. Another one is the aware framework.

 And so, so as I mentioned earlier, I’m a ve I registered very low on the thoughtfulness and emotionality. And then also on strength finders, re responsibility is one of my five strengths. So going through the framework really helped me gain a better understanding of like how to process my overthinking, my emotional overwhelm, and then also my perfectionism.

And the reason why that mattered for me is because I always wanna do the right thing by the people that I work with or the people that I work for. But I was always holding myself responsible for every single conversation or every interaction that might not have been positive. And so when I learned about this framework what I ended up doing is, is taking that and, and putting it into worksheet that could help me sort of break down my ruminating thoughts as a way of processing in the moment versus trying to do it

Through a restless night of, of sleep. They were the two very high level. And then I think one of the most unexpected things that came, came up for me was the yes experiment. This was so unexpected, as I mentioned as someone who’s like highly relational and, and energetically sensitive I really need time away from people to recharge.

And in the leadership roles that I’ve had, it requires a lot of face-to-face. Contact with people, which I absolutely love, but it also drains me. So I found I was stuck in an easy rut of saying no to going out and socializing with people that I wanted to spend time with in my downtime. And I had this like , mental model that if I said yes, then I’d have to stay at an event or an activity for long, long periods of time.

So it was just easier to say no. But then through the Yes experiment, I started using it by saying, yeah, I, I’ll come out. I’m, I’m not sure how long I can stay. But I started doing it more often and by setting this boundary, it really took the pressure off and it also created space for me to have more joy in my life with friends outside of work, which is something that I truly valued.

Melody Wilding: There’s so many threads I wanna pull on here. So much, so much gold for people, and there’s this persistent theme in everything you’ve talked about, this idea of action over intellectualizing. And I think as Sensitive Strivers, intellectualizing, that is our safe space where we, we wanna think through, we wanna reflect on something, we want to plan, we want to anticipate, and, yes, that can be very helpful to an extent. But as you were saying, it can then show up as procrasti-learning where we well, let me, let me just take one more course or read one more book or one more podcast and then I’ll feel ready. And we stay in this, this place where it. It can sometimes then become an echo chamber because we’re kind of like psychoanalyzing the same hangups over and over again.

And it sounds like what you learned was , the real equation for trusting yourself is not waiting till you feel confident, because you’re going to be waiting forever to feel ready or to feel confident. You have to have courage to take the action. The courage then leads to a sense of competence. Not that you know everything, but I tried.

I tried. I didn’t die. I made it through. I learned something. Okay. I feel like I can do it again. ‘Cause now I, now my nervous system knows what to expect and that leads to confidence. And confidence is the capability of just trying and believing you can see something through. So I, I love that because it’s such an important reminder that just because we do have this thoughtfulness, this depth that doesn’t have to hold us back, we learn through that experience and actually colliding with reality.

Yeah. Do any reactions to that? 

Elise Le Brun: , I think to, to your point just in terms of the, the trying to intellectualize it I think since, since resilient I’ve been sort of diving a little bit deeper into, to learning a little bit about you know, the vagus nerve and dysregulation. And, and I think that that helps me also sort of connect the dots in terms of here I was, someone who was, and to be honest, still, still am. I haven’t, I haven’t perfected it. It’s a, it’s a daily struggle, I think. But to realize when I am at that point that I’m starting to head in into territory where I’m, I’m out of balance in those areas. And really looking inside to, to connect that emotional like nervous system regulation versus trying to intellectualize what’s, what’s happening for me.

Melody Wilding: Hmm. So good. Okay. What else stood out to you? What are some other key steps you took to address some of those challenges that you were facing at the beginning? 

Elise Le Brun: Yeah. So imposter syndrome is also something I really struggled with and, and certain, and I still do in certain situations. We covered that one in one of our model modules really early on, and, it encouraged us to, like, I’d heard the term before but, but through this module, it really encouraged us to, to reflect on like how it shows up for us and then what actions we could take to address it.

And what I really wanted to learn as I was going through that, that module is how to show up in different spaces and not be afraid of sharing incomplete thoughts or incomplete ideas. And then also to be able to disagree with confidence. And not feel like I had to you know, wait until after the meeting to think things through.

That, that was something that really stood out to me. In terms of steps at the same time I’d been listening. And also devouring the, we can do hard things, podcast, Glennon Doyle, Abby Waba, and Amanda Doyle. And I decided to use that as a mantra. And so I knew that. Like returning to this, to this role after being off on stress leave would be, would be really hard.

And the rational side of me really knew that I was doing a hard thing. I just needed my emotional side to recognize it in the moment as well. So one action I took as I printed off a sign with, we can Do Hard things, I put it up on my office door as a visual reminder. And that was something that just, it was just that prompt.

If I felt myself being overcome with some kind of stress because of some, something that was, was going through my mind, it was a really great visual indicator to be like, you know what? This is tough, but like, you got this. So

Melody Wilding: Yes. Yes. And what a great reminder too that our surroundings, right? What are the inputs we have coming in and do those service, whether it’s our surroundings, the people that we’re. Choosing the, the content that we’re consuming.

And also, I, I think even underlying that more is we have so much more power than we think to shape or direct our mental and emotional state instead of just feeling at the whim of it.

And that’s what I, I heard you doing is you were looking for proactive ways to shape and influence, not trying to trick yourself, but, but putting in the, you have that quote up, so that’s kind of a, a filter that you’re using. Like, we can do hard things, and therefore your brain is going to attune to all of the evidence that you can do hard things.

And I think that’s important. Because of the, the agency that we can just feel always on our back foot. We’re always just reacting. We always just have to deal with what comes at us and I don’t know why I feel so out of control when it comes to my emotions, my thoughts and my rumination. And yeah. Any, any thoughts on you feeling more in control of these reactions rather than being the victim of them? 

Elise Le Brun: I would say that,  I’m still me, I’m still someone who cares deeply about, about people and, and relationships that I have with them. but I think that having gone through the program, I, I’m now more attuned to my body and I’m attuned to when it’s happening, which is something that I wasn’t aware of, prior to.

 so whether it’s that, I have a sign indicator on the wall or whether it’s, That I need to get up and, and, and go for a walk or, or maybe it’s not the right time for a certain conversation that I need to be having, because I don’t feel that I can, do it in the best possible way. putting some of that thinking and intentionality behind what I’m doing has definitely been something that,  I’ve taken away from Resilient and I’m doing on my day to day.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, I hear more discernment of what you need, what’s best for you in that moment. And sometimes that discernment is doing the hard thing. It’s pushing through, it’s having the hard conversation. It’s. Doing whatever discipline thing you need to do. And sometimes the discernment is actually you do need a break.

You do need to disconnect from this. Maybe this is not the right time to have the conversation. But that requires that you are having that conversation with yourself in a objective way. So that that’s, that is a, that is a very sophisticated skill, which is great to hear. 

Elise Le Brun: Yeah. When you say objective way, ’cause I, ’cause I think that’s the thing for, for, for those of us or speaking from my, my experiences, as me, I would say that the, that negative self-talk, I mean, we’re not our, we’re not our own champion, or at least I haven’t been my own champion. I’m very hard, very self-critical when it comes to things.

 Yeah, recognizing that you’re, you’re human and give yourself grace. And sometimes you have good days and sometimes you don’t, but it’s important to approach. you know, in the context of, of where I was experiencing imposter syndrome is in the context of having conversations, is as long as you can come in with good intentions and be give yourself grace, but then also be kind and, uh, for the people that you’re interacting with.

I think that’s, that’s the, the best approach.

Melody Wilding: Yes. What would you say are your most meaningful successes from the program or even in the time since? 

Elise Le Brun: Yeah, I, I think, Resilient really made a difference for me because it helped me connect language and concepts to what I’d been experiencing for a long time, but I just couldn’t pinpoint. What was happening and, and I didn’t know what to do about it. So in a way it provided me with a little bit of a compass and direction, moving forward.

 It also encouraged me to implement, I think you, you called it a scientific or a, a forensic approach to self-awareness. using evidence-based methods of relying on how I was feeling, versus just focusing on my, my negative self-talk, as the sole source of truth. 

 I think you, you refer to it as psychological distancing or something like that. so for me, very much the, the meaningful successes is very much internalized. which is something that I, I truly value.

Melody Wilding: how do you see yourself differently now? Do you feel like there are things that come easier to you than they did before? 

Elise Le Brun: Yeah, I mean it’s, it is interesting growing up, people would say, you’re just too sensitive. You know, and I think prior to doing Resilient, I saw sensitivity as a weakness. And having done the program, I, I, I see sensitivity as a, as a, not as a weakness, but as a strength. Providing I stay connected and aware of myself when things are, are out of balance.

I think it’s very easy to get caught in overthinking particularly when it involves, in my case, decisions that relate to people. But so I have to be really mindful when I’m starting to get outta balance. And that’s definitely, I would say one of the largest strengths that has, has come from going through this, this process.

Melody Wilding: Hmm. When you say you have to be cognizant of that, when you’re dealing with people, what, what does that look like? How do you deal with that differently now? 

Elise Le Brun: I think it’s kind of a combination of it’s like that combination of imposter syndrome and like the, the strategies that I was putting in place that taking imperfect action. 

So, so if it’s having a conversation, put the preparation in, but don’t over prepare. Be able to go in and have a conversation and see where it goes.

And I think that is something that would’ve taken me a very long time in the past to get to that point. And I think the, the, the time span has shortened significantly since since I went through the program.

Melody Wilding: Yes, and I, I’ve said this multiple times when we’ve had these conversations, but becoming resilient is not the complete absence of fear, or doubt, I mean, that would be, you wouldn’t be a human, you wouldn’t be a Sensitive Striver without that. But it’s that sort of the, the speed with which you can recover from rumination or overthinking or people pleasing it is the, it is the sharpness of your self-awareness and the, the ability to recalibrate that much more quickly. So thank you for highlighting that too. ‘Cause I think it’s, some people have come into the OR who I’ve had chats with about, they wanna do the program and they’ll say, I wanna feel 100% confidence, I want unshakeable confidence.

And I will straight to their face tell them we’re not gonna be able to do that. So if, if you want that, this is not going to be the program for you because I can’t promise you that, and anyone who does is lying to you. And so I appreciate you underlining that because it’s true and we have to embrace that.

But the, the speed at which we recover and take different action that can improve drastically. Yeah.

Elise Le Brun: , Anytime you’re at the edges of growth, it feels uncomfortable. And I, so I think that, as someone, I, I, I am really passionate about development. I mean, it’s in the work that I do with the, the students that I work with. And so, I know that that feeling of discomfort is something that’s shared.

It’s just how you approach it and how you bounce back from it as opposed to avoiding it. So yeah.

Melody Wilding: Yes, because when you avoid it, then it only makes things worse because you’re not getting experience confronting the discomfort. So then you, you’re scared of it even more. You avoid it even more because it feels so big and unfamiliar. And I, I think that’s our instinct many times is like, well, let me play it safe and not do the thing, but you’re actually making it worse for yourself because then it feels like a bigger occasion. Like it feels like a bigger mountain to climb when you have to. 

Elise, what would you say were your favorite parts of the program? 

Elise Le Brun: . The people for sure the people in the program were incredibly supportive. It helped me feel less alone. I think, you know, knowing that there’s people out there who are, who are struggling with the sim with similar or, or different things, they’re still out there putting in the work.

I really valued the, the resilient community and the way that we could come together, both in an online or like in an asynchronous or synchronous way was fantastic.

And also the format of the, the program where. You know, you would do the reflective work on your own first, then you would come back to a group call where you get to hear how others are exploring the concept.

You can ask questions. And that really further cement cemented my understanding versus doing one or the other. I think the combination of the two was really powerful for me.

. 

Melody Wilding: Thank you for highlighting that because we do have so many different modes and ways to learn in the program, whether it is the videos, it’s the live coaching calls, it’s the reflection exercises, or the community. There’s a little bit of something for everyone because we all have different modes of learning, and as adults, we don’t learn best by being lectured to for hours on end. We need to synthesize the material. We need to talk through how we’re going to apply it. We need exercises and tools to be able to apply it in our real life. And so to hear that those different options worked well for you and most importantly, that you took advantage of them.

Because we always say at the end of the day, we can’t come to your house and force you to do this work. We can give you the structure and the scaffolding and all of the support possible, but you have to do that work. And so I just, I commend you and give you so much kudos because. You showed up, you put in the effort, you were applying things, you were deciding, let me try this or try that.

You raised your hand for coaching, you were participating with the other members, and that’s what creates success, is actually showing up, interacting, not just kind of passively consuming and hoping magically things will change. 

Elise Le Brun: Yeah. you fostered a, a, a very safe environment for for the participants. And I think that’s also where the more sharing that was taking place amongst, amongst our community was. Because folks felt safe and they felt that they could trust the, the folks that were in the spaces. which is a big part of that.

If you’re going to take on something new through, through learning and growth, you need to have that psychological safety in the space. And you definitely fostered that in Resilient, which I really appreciated.

Melody Wilding: Well, thank you. We put a lot of effort into and attention into making that so. And we, we like to think of it too as this is a playground or a microcosm for you to practice some of those skills that you want to grow, like assertiveness and speaking up before your thoughts are fully formed or you’ve had days to think about them.

We wanna give you a, psychologically safe environment to experiment with actually building those skills as well and have people that you like and who are supportive while doing it. Because most of us, we don’t have the luxury of always taking those risks in our workplace for whatever reason, the 

Elise Le Brun: Mm-hmm. 

Melody Wilding: or we just can’t spend that social capital.

And so having this environment as a experimental ground can also be really helpful. 

Elise Le Brun: Yeah. And I think also too, as, as adult learners, you know, as myself, I went to university quite like later on in life. And then when I did my graduate degree even much later, and I think, you know, I’m very familiar with the adult learner mindset. One of the adult learner mindsets, which is this, I should know this.

For some reason we, we come into this new learning environment, thinking that we, we should know how to do these things. And so it’s really important to again, I come back to, you know, give yourself grace, but then lean into the fact that this is new information, this process of reflection, this process of sharing the concepts that you’re connecting with.

It’s new and it can feel uncomfortable, but but that’s how you’re going to really get the most out of the program is if you, if you dive into as many of the concepts and you contribute, so.

Melody Wilding: Elise, final question. you recommend Resilient to another Sensitive Striver? 

Elise Le Brun: Oh, a hundred percent. I think if you’re the kind of person who, who wants to be in community with others if you wanna access like different tools and different ways of knowing to increase your understanding of yourself, and then also like how you interact with others I would definitely recommend the Resilient program.

Melody Wilding: Elise, thank you so much for taking your time, for sharing your experiences so openly for being here with me today. I really, really appreciate it and I know anyone who’s listening does too. 

Elise Le Brun: Thank you so much, melody. It’s been great.