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Like you’re picking up on subtle details and emotions that other people seem to miss completely? If so, you may be what’s known as a highly sensitive person or an HSP. And in today’s very fast paced, often overwhelming world, being an HSP can feel a bit like a blessing and a curse. You might be listening to this podcast because you have followed my own work on being a highly sensitive person in the workplace. Whether you have heard me talk about this topic for a while or you are brand new to this concept and just having a light bulb moment right now, this episode is going to be for you.

And today, I am so honored and thrilled to be joined by my friend and colleague, April Snow. She is a licensed psychotherapist and author who specializes in helping highly sensitive people calm that storm of overwhelm, anxiety, self doubt, and really allow their innate strengths to shine. April is the author of multiple books, including Find Your Strength, a workbook for the highly sensitive person, the mindfulness workbook for stress relief, and the Empowered highly sensitive Person’s self-care journal. So just multiple time author here all over. So, April, thank you so much for joining me on psychology at work.

It’s great to have you. Oh, it’s so wonderful to be here, Melody. Thank you for having me. Yeah. And we were just joking before we hit record that you and I could talk about HSPs in the workplace for hours, probably.

So we’re gonna have to, you know, keep this to a reasonable time today. But for those people that are not familiar, maybe they have not really heard the term highly sensitive person or they’ve come across it once or twice. How do you define being a highly sensitive person? Absolutely. I think this is a great place to start.

So when you’re highly sensitive, you’re one of the 30% of people who are born with a temperament trait called sensory processing sensitivity, and that’s just a technical term legitimizes it. And what this means is that your brain, your nervous system were wired just a little bit differently. And when this happens, you’ll notice that there are 4 characteristics. And I wanna put this through the lens of work since that’s the the topic we’re on. The main component of the trait, it’s not emotionality, which you may think.

It’s actually something called depth of processing, which means that your mind, it needs more time to reflect, to integrate, to move from one task to the next. So when you’re at work, you’re going to need more time to make decisions, to process information when you’re working on a project, to think before you speak in a meeting, to, you know, really think about the information you’re you’re taking in thinking 10 steps ahead, noticing body language. There’s just a lot that you’re picking up on, and this makes it more easy to get overstimulated, which could be our Achilles heel, especially at work. When you don’t have enough time to think to yourself, to reflect, to integrate, you’re gonna feel more anxious at work, more overstimulated, irritable. You might have trouble focusing or even feel teary, like your emotions could just spill out in that meeting, which can be a little bit frustrating or embarrassing.

But you’re also bringing so much to the table and emotions can also be an asset at work. You know, you’re you’re picking up on what your coworkers need. You’re noticing what others may be able to bring to the table. You’re really bringing things out of people, which I always think is why we make such great leaders as HSPs, which is, I think, counterintuitive. However, it may also be difficult to prioritize your needs at work, to say no to that request, to not work over time.

You feel guilty. You worry about the impact on others. And then lastly is being more aware of subtleties in your environment, picking up on body language, noticing when someone makes a maybe makes a face to someone else in a meeting or is feeling a little bit emotional or you can tell someone doesn’t like an idea. You’re gonna notice that and pick up on it, which is can be a lot to hold. However, it’s it’s really helpful because then maybe you can move the needle.

So on the surface, it may seem like, oh, I have less capacity to bring to the workplace. You know, but just think about how our minds are working at complex levels, how how much of an asset that is. You know, you may not be able to work as much overtime or skip lunch breaks, but you’re producing really quality work and you’re really an emotional leader in the workplace. So, yeah, so much we could get into here. Yeah.

Lots to unpack, but that that does model is is very helpful to even just for anyone listening who has been told their whole life, you take things too personally, you need a thicker skin, Who’s gotten that feedback and performance reviews? I think it’s very helpful to have language to put to their experiences that this is this is a real thing you have experienced. This is not something that’s wrong with you. You’re not defective. And I found the analogy metaphor, I don’t I forget which is which.

But the the idea that, you know, as someone who’s sensitive, you’re more finely calibrated. It’s kind of like you’re a high performance vehicle. And so you, you wouldn’t just, you know, if you had a Ferrari, you you have to you give it special gas, you take care of it, you learn to drive it in a certain way. And it’s not that you you shame it for being a Ferrari, you appreciate it for that, but you you learn how to manage and use it in the right way. And it sounds like sensitivity, especially when we’re talking about it in the workplace, is kind of the same thing because there’s this this both and to it.

It can be a tremendous asset, and there’s ways we have to learn to be aware of it or leverage it to serve us and the people around us in the best way. That’s exactly it. And I love this analogy. We often will talk about the flower analogy in the in the HSP world. You know?

HSPs being the orchid, then then we had the tulips, and then on the other end of the spectrum, we had the dandelions who are more rugged. They need less care, but they also bring maybe less visually. I love the Ferrari metaphor as well because it is an asset at work, and we can and should leverage what we bring to the table. And so we I think we often will throw our sensitivity out because we get more overstimulated, but we can nurture it. Yeah.

Yeah. And we can we can get into this because I have a real, it it gets me a little upset when I hear Yeah. Especially sensitive people say, well, I’m sensitive. I couldn’t be a leader. Or I’m sensitive, so I don’t wanna take on more responsibility because it would be too much for me.

Yes. And so we can unpack that in a second because I I think you will probably have any thoughts about that too. Yes. But I wanna just dig a little bit more into some of the the strengths or specifically ways that HSPs can use their strengths in the workplace. Because, again, it’s easy to get stuck and see all of the ways that it doesn’t work for us and that it can be a hindrance.

And sometimes we’re not even aware because our strengths come easily to us, and we we devalue them because it feels easy. So I’d love to hear from you because you’ve you’ve had, I mean, tens of thousands of readers over the years. You worked with probably 100 of, if not thousands of HSPs in your practice at well as well. So what have you seen? Mhmm.

It we do see it often as a hindrance, but we’re we’re not seeing the full perspective of what it means to be highly sensitive. Because I would bet there are people that you’ve seen, whether in your personal life or in the world, that are HSPs and you don’t know it because they’re living that balanced life and the the strengths are rising to the surface. So the hindrance is the overstimulation. Really, I think that’s the main downside of sensitivity, but it’s really it’s just a byproduct of our gifts. Perception, attunement, emotionality.

This can all be managed though. Right? So those strengths can come through. So when you’re living a balanced life, you are an invaluable asset at work. Everybody needs an HSP on their team, and here’s why.

You know, we’re very intuitive, creative problem solvers. I remember I was at a retreat once for HSPs, and we were sitting around talking about if we only we could sell all the ideas we have because we have such an abundance of them. We can never use them all, and I see you nodding. Because, you know, we’re seeing 10 steps ahead. We’re our our mind is working in a complex way.

It’s putting all this information that we gather together, and a lot of it’s unconscious. We don’t even realize all the data that we’re we’re putting together to come up with, you know, creative solutions, new ideas. We’re seeing things from different angles. This is anybody. This would be no matter what, you know, field you’re in, this is helpful, to have.

And that that attention to detail, it’s so invaluable whether you’re viewing data, you’re working on a creative project, you’re a people manager, whatever it is, that attention to detail is valuable. And HSPs because of it, we’re really thorough. We’re dedicated. We’re driven to get things done right the first time. Right?

That’s literally why we’re highly sensitive is to prevent mistakes and dangers from happening if we wanna go, you know, down that rabbit hole. So you may take longer to do things, but you’re making fewer mistakes along the way. That’s a really interesting way to think about it. I actually have never heard it put that way that we’re yes. You may take a little bit longer, but longer when you have a bigger perspective, it’s actually higher quality work in the end, which is interesting.

Saving time. Yeah. Which is interesting because I think, you know, how you talk about your sensitivity to other people. I get this question a lot. And, again, I’ve this is like colleague to colleague here, you know, swapping notes.

But people people often ask me, should you tell your boss or your colleagues you’re an HSP? And I’ll just I’ll give you my 2¢, and I would love to hear yours. But my 2¢ is you have to read the room. In some cultures, it will be safer than other cultures. It also depends on the strength of your relationship, the trust you have with these people.

But in all cases, I think that you can be, as an HSP, articulating your your needs without saying, I am an HSP. That means I get overstimulated or I need more time. But you you can speak to the strengths it brings to say, yes. I can we extend this deadline? Because if I have a little more space to work on this, I guarantee you that that’s going to mean less drafts and iterations overall.

That is speaking to the strength of your sensitivity without sort of hitting it on the nose and boxing you into a label that people may have their own thoughts or, biases about. Absolutely. I think it’s we can keep the bottom line, which is what your manager is most interested in, I think, at the end of the day. So and letting them know, here’s what I need to help you get to where you wanna go. Here’s how I can support the goal, the overall goal for for you, for the team, for the company, for the organization.

And I’m totally on the same page as you that we don’t need to disclose that we’re a highly sensitive person unless it’s the right environment. Because there are a lot of misperceptions about that term, the highly sensitive term, or just the word sensitive in general. You can speak to your sensitive experience without ever using the word sensitive. I’m more perceptive. I’m more attuned.

I’m more emotional. I’m more I and I’m a deep processor. I’m a deep thinker. And letting your colleagues or your supervisors know, here’s my experience. Here’s what I bring to the table without ever using that terminology.

Yeah. That’s great. I think just, again, just having having the terminology, having the language so helpful for people because we get we get tunnel vision about our own experiences, and it’s hard to see it Mhmm. Any other way. Yeah.

Exactly. It’s true. You may feel really excited about being a highly sensitive person or something that you’re figuring out for yourself, but we have to think about when and how to share that with others. Exactly. Mhmm.

Yeah. And, another question I get a lot is what types of jobs are best for highly sensitive people? And I I know you’ve written a lot about this. You have a really great Instagram page where you’re always posting helpful tips and even crowdsource, like, ideas from from your audience, which I really love. But what is your, perspective on are there particular career paths or work environments that actually do tend to be a better fit for HSPs?

Yeah. I I think this is a question I get so much. I think this is the ultimate question for our community of of sensitive people. I mean, stereotypically, we think of HSPs as librarians, therapists, body workers, artists, you know, those quiet, caregiving, creative, types of work. But, really, an HSP can do anything.

You know, we’re I think it’s important to remember that we’re all unique. We have different intersecting personality traits. We have different backgrounds, interests. So really don’t box yourself in. I would I would ask less what is the right job for an HSP and what is and rather ask what is the right job for me?

Because, really, it just boils down to, I think, you know, you need 2 things to be present at work for it to be successful. You need meaning, and you need balance. So if work is meaningful, whether it’s the mission of the organization you’re working with, the people that you work alongside, the actual tasks that you do, or what you personally get out of the work, whether it’s financial or it’s emotional, that is essential. You have to have that present. And it doesn’t matter what type of work you do.

As long as that’s there, you’re gonna find fulfillment and it’s gonna be sustainable. And then the other piece, which is critical, is balance, and that shows up in a lot of different ways, from being able to take lunch breaks, because some environments or cultures, that’s not acceptable, but that’s absolutely essential for an HSP to have a break every day, to go on vacations, to take sick days when you need them, to have time to process and integrate, to have heads down time to work and think, and where your needs are respected. So I’ve seen HSPs do every type of work. Right? Nursing, graphic design, you know, tech people managers, like, so many different types of work.

I would ask yeah. Again, just think about what you personally feel passionate about and you personally feel drawn to. That’s what’s most important. Do you ever wish that each workday didn’t feel like an emotional roller coaster? Or that you could stop second guessing every little decision you make or idea you share?

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We always sell out, and we’d love to help you regain your confidence at work and turn your sensitivity from a liability into an asset. This is very subjective. No. I I could not agree more when people when people ask me that. I’m like, I understand.

I understand where it’s coming from completely. But, you know, I just I I hope for anyone listening that please don’t use the HSP label against yourself as a reason you can’t do things. It’s self knowledge which doesn’t have to limit you. It can be advantage you because now that you know you’re an HSP, now you might know you need to just manage yourself differently in whatever environment you’re in. You may need to ask for questions in advance of a meeting, or you may need to ask for working one day from home a week, whatever it is, but you you have that self knowledge to manage yourself better.

It doesn’t have to preclude you from doing anything in that role. Yeah. Absolutely. I think a lot of times we’re looking at changing our work environment instead of changing how we work or how we leverage our assets. So, yes, what adjustments can you make in your current workplace?

Mhmm. Because, again, everyone will benefit. You’ll benefit. You won’t be as overstimulated, and then everyone else has access to all the gifts you bring to the table from your detailed orientation to your emotional leadership. Yeah.

Absolutely. And I I would love your take on this too because, you know, I’ve I’ve often been asked, how do we make workplaces more HSP friendly? And then people will say, well, the changes you’re suggesting sound like they would be good for anyone. And, yeah, that’s correct. Exactly.

It would be. So I would love just your from anyone who who is a leader here, who may be an HSP there’s themselves or is just a very caring person is like, oh, I have a couple of people like this on my team. How do they make their environment more supportive? And Mhmm. And to really get the best performance out of these people, make sure they are happy and have the meeting.

Absolutely. Because, first of all, yes. You’re right. When when something benefits the highly sensitive person in the workplace, it benefits everyone. Right?

And I think there’s a couple different pieces here. One is work in integration time. Right? I I have so many clients that go from meeting to meeting to meeting, and there’s no space to actually sit and process and plan and problem solve. And even 1 hour a week would make a difference Yeah.

For some of these folks. Right? I mean, ideally, you’re having time every day or a block of time every week. But just thinking about where can you create a little bit of space, a little bit of breathing room for folks. So not scheduling back to back meetings throughout every day or having one day a week with no meetings where you can actually catch up, you can integrate, you can actually think and and, just sit with your thoughts.

And then having some of that balance come in, prioritizing lunch breaks, prioritizing mindfulness breaks, having quiet spaces to work, you know, turning off the overhead lights perhaps in certain sections of the office. Right? Allowing people to take care of themselves. Because when HSPs are balanced, we are very passionate, dedicated, hard workers. We’d love to work.

We love to deep dive. We give our all to our work when we’re able to. And so I think there’s something that organizations can do, then there’s things that we can do for ourselves too. Yeah. So let’s get into that because you were mentioning overstimulation is probably the biggest challenge Yes.

That HSPs have. So what can you do individually to manage your own level of stimulation? Absolutely. If I think there’s ways that you can leverage for yourself, but start with what you have control over as you build up confidence to talk to your supervisor and maybe advocate for yourself. But before that, I would look out zoom out and look at your full stimulation container.

What’s happening before and after work? Are you coming into work tired, dysregulated, emotional, underslept? How are you taking care of yourself at the end of the day? Right? That’s also important.

So it’s not just what’s happening at work. It’s what’s happening around work and the rest of your life. And see if you can take little breaks instead of just pushing through and staying tied to your desk all day. Can you get up on the hour, go to the bathroom, step outside, move yourself to a quiet room? Is there an empty conference room or a corner that you can work in?

Those are just a few ideas and then maybe regulating yourself or maybe you go into the bathroom and you do a few mindfulness practices. You know, I love doing just closing my eyes and maybe doing a little humming or doing a physiological sigh where you breathe in in 2 parts and you do a big exhale. You know, there’s lots of little practices that you can use that will reset your nervous system or at least bring your stimulation levels down enough to get through the day. I love the idea of a stimulation container. I never thought of it that way, but it’s it’s so brilliant because, it it is.

It’s like it’s like a, you know do you remember when you were a kid and they would do a fundraiser and they’d have, like, that thermometer that kept Exactly. Going up? Yeah. You know what I mean. It reminds me of that.

Like, almost mentally, where’s your where’s your stimulation thermometer? It’s exactly and what happens when the thermometer is all the way at the top? It explodes. Yep. Right?

Yep. So can we bring the temperature down? How are you bringing the temperature down throughout the day? Yeah. Yeah.

And a little goes a long way. Right? 2 things there. So, I love what you were saying about looking at everything around how you work because this is something I see often is people will come to me and say like, I freeze in meetings. I get really overstimulated in meetings because there’s a lot going on.

I feel like I’m managing a lot of dynamics. I have to think on my feet. It’s just, like, all the all the things I’m not good at combined. And then when I talk to them a little bit more, to your point, they’re like back to back to back to back to back. Exactly.

They have not eaten lunch. They have not had a second to even take a bio break or anything. Mhmm. They’re coming they’re checking their email in between and got a tough message, and now their mind is on that. They’re coming in with their stimulation level all the way at 80.

Yes. And so then then you layer on to that just the natural stress of being in a meeting, especially if it’s higher stakes or you have important people in there and boom. So to your point, it’s it’s about managing. You used the word capacity before, which I think is really smart way to think about it. But give yourself a little more breathing room because the stress is going to come up.

You have to anticipate that and, again, manage yourself around that. Absolutely. You need some buffer. So if you’re coming in already at 80, there’s not a lot of room to play with. And I know life is challenging.

It’s complex. There are a lot of other pieces pulling for your attention, but putting your own self care, your own nervous system regulation more at the forefront. I think it’s easy for us to put ourselves completely at the bottom to compare ourselves. Well, my spouse, my friend, my family, my coworker doesn’t need this. Why do I?

You do. You do. And when you take care of yourself, so much more is available. I love that. Just accept that this is this is a biological fact.

Yes. And let’s let’s move from there without judgment of this. Exactly. Your high sensitivity is not going away, and I know that can be hard for some folks to hear. However, let’s look again, look at the big picture, what it brings to the table.

We forget all of the benefits of being highly sensitive. Those aren’t those often aren’t, accounted for. Mhmm. Yeah. And I just wanna go back to what you were mentioning about a little going a long way Yes.

Which is, I don’t know if you see this with the folks you work with, but I certainly see a bit of all or nothing thinking around this where if I don’t have 2 hours to journal, then I’m not going to journal at all. Exactly. Or if I can’t take the entire weekend off, then what does it matter taking a 10 minute break? And like you were saying, I just if you could speak to that for a minute, just a little bit, because it it feels like it’s easy to write off. Well, you know, why why take a few deep breaths?

Who is that really going to put a dent in things? But I would just love to hear you speak to that. Yes. As HSPs, we are often perfectionists. We are because we can see how well something could go.

Mhmm. Right? And we feel deeply about it. And when it’s not if it’s not going perfectly, if we don’t have 2 hours for that morning yoga practice, we may say, what’s the point? Right?

However, the gift of being highly sensitive is something called differential susceptibility, which means that we thrive more than others with a little bit of support. So 5 minutes talking with a friend, a quick walk, a few minutes journaling or sitting in meditation or whatever. It doesn’t have to be that. It could be playing a video game. It could be playing with your dog, cooking.

Whatever lights you up, a few minutes goes a long way, and you will because you’re more emotional and more perceptive, you will feel that and be impacted by that so much more than the average person. That is a gift. So going into the bathroom, doing a little breathing, taking a quick walk outside on your lunch break, it will make an impact, and it’ll bring that thermometer down just a little so you can get through the day. Get back to your safe, cozy space at home. That’s great.

I love that. Yeah. And you were talking before a bit about needing to communicate our needs, us being aware of our needs, but we also need to communicate that diplomatically to others. So do you have any examples of how someone who is an HSP might be able to communicate some of their needs or preferences to their supervisor, to their colleagues without feeling like they’re imposing or asking for special treatment? Absolutely.

And I know it can feel this way. Right? And there are a lot of guilt can come up or shame even in that, oh, why do I need something different? Yeah. However, we’ll all invite you to come back to what you do bring to the table when your needs are met and there’s a lot of positive aspects of having different personalities at the work table.

And I say I always go to a kind of a simple formula for when talking with supervisors, which is I can give you this. To do that, I need this. Right? So it’s a trade. So for instance, you know, I focus better when I’m able to sit alone in the conference room to work out a problem, And then I can bring it back to the team.

How can we make that work for me? Right? Or going back to what we talked about before, which is, you know, I’m gonna increase deliverables or increase the the goal that we’re working on, but to do that, I need Heads down time on Fridays or whatever it is. Right? But just reminding your supervisor how they’re gonna benefit and how what you’re asking for actually supports the mission, the team, the organization.

Right? Because that’s really ultimately what’s happening. They’re benefiting. Yeah. You’re getting what you need and not ending the day feeling completely overstimulated and burned out, but they’re also winning.

So it’s not selfish at all. And then if you’re talking to colleagues, again, you don’t have to bring up the word sensitive. You don’t have to make an excuse. It’s really just stating your preferences and your needs. So something like, you know, you’ve noticed I pick up a lot of detail, and because of that, I I get overstimulated without a break.

So I’m gonna take lunch alone today, but, hopefully, I’ll catch up with you tomorrow. It doesn’t have to be this big confrontation. Simply stating your experience and your need and then letting folks know, here’s how that’s gonna support you or here’s how I’m gonna come back and reconnect with you later. You don’t have to make it a big deal. Yeah.

Or be apologetic about it. Apologetic. Exactly. I noticed. That’s what I noticed in how you frame those.

I wrote down inform and invite versus asking for approval. So instead of do you think maybe I could have some extra time or would it be okay if I just if if I did that? You’re saying, this is my need. How can we make that work? That’s a fact.

Totally different. People will respond to that totally differently than if you are coming at it kinda cowering. And Right. Yeah. And so, I just noticed that it it has the way you state it has strength and confidence behind it.

Yeah. Exactly. Right? And and this is ironic, but we’re taking the emotion out of it. Yes.

Yes. And so, kind of building on the conversation about overstimulation, how what tips do you have for recovering after a stressful day or even just a tough period of time at work? Because burnout because of our tendency for overstimulation, burnout can be a real risk if you’re an HSP. And so how do you how do you recover? So coming back to the need for more transition time, I think that’s a really important piece, because we will burn out if we don’t take care of ourselves, if we don’t work with our natural rhythm, which is to pause and reflect and integrate and process.

So I would really have a practice that signals to yourself that you’re no longer in work mode when you’re finishing up your day. So put away your laptop, close the door to your home office if you have one, get a shower, change your clothes, go for a walk. And ideally, you’re ending the day 15 or 20 minutes reflecting on the day. What went well today? What do I wanna do differently next time?

What’s tomorrow look like? So you’re ending the day, and then you’re starting the preparation for the next day. Your brain naturally wants to do that. If we don’t do that intentionally, you’ll be doing it on the pillow when you’re trying to fall asleep at night. Right?

And there’s accumulation, not just of stimulation, but of needing to process your experience from the day. So I think it’s really it’s essential, actually, not just important, but essential to have that integrated into your day. Now if that’s not on your calendar, you may need to spend an extra 15 or 20 minutes of your own time at your desk, which I think will hopefully, that’s not happening. But if it needs to happen, it’s gonna be a lot more impactful than trying to do that while you’re making dinner and playing with the kids and getting through your evening routine. And then do something physical that helps you shake the day off.

So that could be going for a walk, having a dance break, getting a hot shower, humming or singing, something that’s gonna stimulate your nervous system and help you move that move through the day, the emotions of the day. So processing time, nervous system regulation time, super critical. It’s a great point. Maintain that balance. Yeah.

It’s a great point about if you don’t process it, it’s gonna come up later. It will. So true. Your brain wants to close loops and it wants to make sense of that, especially as someone who is more highly sensitive. You just have your brain is wired that way.

And, like, if you don’t make space for it, you’re the wheels are gonna keep turning and try to close those loops later. Exactly. Just like the simulation, our experiences will also accumulate, and our brain is hungry to process and make sense of those experiences. So we really need to carve out that time. That’s a very important component to burnout prevention.

Yeah. Yeah. What, what would you have to say to an HSP who maybe feels like they are weird or they are different. I’ve had people say to me, I feel like an odd duck in my workplace. I’ve felt like an oddball my whole life.

What words of wisdom do you have for them, especially as they’re navigating their careers and you know, maybe realizing, oh, I do have different needs. I have to manage myself differently. I would say celebrate it. I mean, really, if we think about it, differences make a more well rounded workplace. Right?

Differences are essential for success of any type of work environment. We need different perspectives, different points of view, and we need different skill sets. As an HSP, what you’re bringing to the table, your insights, your intuition, your creativity, your emotionality, everyone is benefiting from that. So I would see if you can reframe it as an asset versus a deficit. Because when you embrace your differences, when you embrace your sensitivity, everyone is benefiting.

Everyone. Even if they don’t realize why they’re benefiting or that it’s stemming from your sensitivity, that’s the reality. Yeah. And you create an upward spiral for yourself too. You start noticing some of the good things or the ways you do add value versus all of the ways you might feel you’re defective or falling behind or more difficult.

Right? Create an upward spiral instead of a downward one by directing your attention. Absolutely. Because we’re so trained to focus on the deficits of sensitivity and we miss the assets. Yes.

Yes. April, where can folks find you, connect with you, and learn from you? What’s the best place to send them? Sure. You can go to my website, Sensitive Strengths.com.

All my resources are there, books, workshops, social media, blogs, everything you can dive into. I highly recommend it. April is, you know, the leading expert on on this this stuff. So, April, thank you so much for joining me today. Like, we could talk about this for hours.

Yeah. And, just so grateful to have you here. Absolutely, Melody. It’s always a pleasure connecting with you. Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of Psychology at Work.

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