Melody Wilding [00:00:02]:
How do you become fully confident and in control of your emotions and experience at work? It’s by mastering your own psychology and that of others. On this show, we decode the science of success, exploring how to get out of your own way and advance your career to new levels without becoming someone you’re not. I’m melody Wilding, best selling author, human behavior professor, and award winning executive coach. Get ready and letheme. That’s put psychology to work for you. Imagine you are working hard. You are giving it your all, but your boss doesn’t seem to notice or even care. It’s a scenario that so many of us have faced before.

Melody Wilding [00:00:49]:
It’s frustrating, it’s demoralizing. But the good news is that you can do more about it than you may think. So today we are diving into the psychology of workplace recognition and how to stay motivated when you’re not getting the appreciation that you deserve. And I am so thrilled and honored to welcome my friend, my colleague, Shawna A. Hawking. She is the founder of I gotta start again. Sorry. Okay, we’re gonna do it again.

Melody Wilding [00:01:25]:
I tripped up because I didn’t say CEO. I was already onto Hawking leadership and didn’t see CEO.

Shanna Hocking [00:01:33]:
All good.

Melody Wilding [00:01:33]:
All right. Imagine you are working hard, you’re giving it your all, but your boss doesn’t seem to notice or care. It’s a scenario so many of us have faced. It’s frustrating, it’s demoralizing. But the good news here is that you can do more about this situation than you think. And today we are diving into the psychology of workplace recognition and how to stay motivated when you’re not getting the appreciation that you deserve. I am thrilled and honored to welcome my friend, my colleague, Shawna A. Hawking.

Melody Wilding [00:02:11]:
She is the founder and CEO of Hawking Leadership. She is also the author of one Bold Move a day, which I highly recommend you pick up a copy of. So, Shawna, thank you. I am so thrilled to have you here.

Shanna Hocking [00:02:24]:
Melody, I’m so glad to be here with you.

Melody Wilding [00:02:26]:
Yes, I wanna dive in to start. This is a podcast about psychology at work and you have what I think is a very uncommon and extremely powerful and useful skillset, which is raising money. You have raised hundreds of of millions of dollars throughout the course of your career and I would love to hear from you. What are some of the most important lessons or insights you’ve learned about psychology through this process?

Shanna Hocking [00:03:01]:
Well, it’s a good thing that I majored in psychology as an undergrad based on your thoughtful question, but I love thinking about the psychology of raising money, because the psychology of money is real. So anytime you’re around money, particularly with the power dynamics of asking for money and raising money, the first thing I would say is there’s the mindset shift to believe that you have the capacity to do this job, and it’s an ongoing process. I remember early in my career that I lost out on a million dollar gift opportunity because I momentarily told myself that I didn’t really have the capacity to do the work that I’d been hired to do. In the understanding, in the listening process of raising money, you’re understanding what motivates people, what’s important to people, what do they value? Because fundraising is not just asking for money. It’s creating an opportunity for a person and an organization to achieve something meaningful together, probably something more than any one of them could ever have achieved on their own. And that means we have to see yourself as a partner with the people that you’re raising money from and not bring your own money stories to that process and make decisions for them. So it’s a really fun question to think about the psychology that goes into the career and the calling that I chose.

Melody Wilding [00:04:28]:
Yeah. And I would love to build on this a little bit, because obviously your firm is called hawking leadership. You do a lot of leadership development. And how do you see this sort of psychology of money? Asking for money play out with leaders who have to, especially women who might have to advocate for their team or advocate for other resources that they need. And they may feel, who am I? Who am I to ask for this? Or they feel weird or sleazy about asking for something.

Shanna Hocking [00:05:00]:
Sure. Well, what I think is most interesting, and I can’t speak for all fundraisers, obviously, but what I have seen a lot with colleagues and now clients, these women are very skilled at asking for money and raising significant dollars, six, seven, eight, and nine figure gifts. But negotiating their own salary is really tricky. And managing up with their boss to get what they need for their team can feel harder when they’re getting that pushback. And so I think what’s so powerful about this, the psychology of the way that we do the work, is that you can feel really confident and strong in one area. And then when you have to apply that sometimes for yourself rather than on behalf of something else, it starts to feel a lot more complicated. But when women are asking for money, there’s also this inherent power dynamic, right? There’s the money that creates a power dynamic, and then there’s sometimes a man and a woman that’s creating a different dynamic when it comes to a relationship. In that ask.

Shanna Hocking [00:06:05]:
I feel like this is something we talk about a lot in our profession about how to navigate this, and I think it’s as important to talk about with men as it is to talk about with women, so that we’re all aware about the psychology of the work that we do and how we can support each other to be successful.

Melody Wilding [00:06:21]:
Yeah, so important. And talking about your boss, you were mentioning asking for a raise or asking for what you need from your boss. One of the reasons why I wanted you to have on have you on is, of course you are brilliant and have so much amazing wisdom to share. But you wrote what I think was a very relevant article for Fast Company, which was called how to stay motivated at work when you’re not receiving the recognition you deserve. So I would love to know that it’s a very specific challenge and very specific angle. What inspired you to write that?

Shanna Hocking [00:07:01]:
Well, Melody, because we’re friends, I’m going to tell you the real answer, which is I was inspired by my own experience in not getting the recognition that I needed or deserved at work and feeling devalued, demoralized and underappreciated for what I was doing and how I was contributing to the organization.

Melody Wilding [00:07:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so what do you, what do you think? I think a lot of us jump right to I’m not getting the recognition I deserve because either I’m not good enough, I’m failing, or my boss is a jerk. So what are some of the reasons? And maybe those things are true. I’d love to hear from you.

Shanna Hocking [00:07:46]:
Right?

Melody Wilding [00:07:47]:
Yes, yes. I’m sure in many cases they are. But what have you seen throughout your own experience through working with organizations and your clients about what is really behind not getting the recognition you think you deserve?

Shanna Hocking [00:08:03]:
Recognition, for me, is just one of those, like, fundamental things that we can do to make work better. So I have spent a lot of time trying to understand this with clients or other conversations. Like, what is the hesitation to give recognition to your team members? Because it’s just completely, it’s so completely different than the way that I approach the world. And here are some of the things that I’ve heard and learned. Some people feel that it’s important not to give recognition to their team members for, quote, just doing their job because they perceive it to be just what’s expected of people. Now, I have my own feelings about this, but it’s helpful to hear where people are coming from on that and why they might be reticent to give this feedback. I think that the reality is that most people, they either don’t notice because they’re moving so quickly through their day or they notice something that they want to say positive feedback on, and then they’re just on to the next thing, they’re on to the next meeting, they’re on to the next expectation. And so it slips their mind.

Shanna Hocking [00:09:09]:
It’s good intentions, but it slips their mind. And then the thing that I am still exploring more about is where I’ve heard people say that it feels vulnerable to give people recognition. And I think it’s because we don’t always model how to do this well. And so it feels uncertain. Like maybe I’m going to say, quote the wrong thing, though I think that’s probably much more in someone’s head than in real life. But I think that those are some of the things that I’ve heard in addition to maybe your boss just isn’t really a kind person. But ultimately, I would really hope that people don’t go down the road of thinking that it’s because they’re not good enough. That would really break my heart.

Melody Wilding [00:09:52]:
Yeah, I guess we should take a step back. What does recognition at work mean to you? Because it can be a very broad term that means everything from you’re getting a spot bonus or, I don’t know, tickets to a football game to you’re just, you’re getting a shout out in slack. So to you, how do you define recognition at work and what you should be looking for, you should be expecting.

Shanna Hocking [00:10:21]:
Right. So I think that you’re spot on that there are many different ways to interpret what recognition means. When I think about recognition, I am thinking about it in the context of feedback, whether that is constructive feedback or positive feedback and appreciation. And I do see that Venn diagram of appreciation and recognition. And this doesn’t always mean that someone is saying, like, you are doing amazing at everything. That’s not what recognition is in my mind, it’s someone taking the time to say, I care enough about you that I’m going to honor you by sharing with you what you do really well and what I think you might want to do differently or more of. And to me, that is so connected to how we motivate people and help them feel connected to the purpose and their organization that we can’t let it go unnoticed or not happening in our workplaces.

Melody Wilding [00:11:15]:
Yeah. And it’s so interesting that you were saying, I’ve definitely heard that objection to recognition where it almost becomes this trickle down effect of, well, I didn’t get recognition from my boss for doing my job, so therefore I’m not going to give you recognition. I’m just curious. Yeah, I mean, you’re having a reaction.

Shanna Hocking [00:11:39]:
Yes. If we all treated everybody like the worst boss we ever had, then that’s probably why we ended up with low employee engagement and retention in our workplaces. I don’t even think it’s our job to treat people like the best boss we’ve ever had. I think it’s our job to manage and support people the way that they need us to manage and support them, which might look a little bit different than what we’re expecting. You know, I had a boss one time say, well, I had to learn how to pat myself on my own back. And so I think that you should have to learn that, too. And I might have actually called you after we had that conversation, Melody. But, like.

Shanna Hocking [00:12:18]:
But why? Why is it my job to create something worse than what I believe in my heart is possible in creating a positive culture and strengthening leaders? And so I just encourage everyone to say, like, what does this person need from me? How can I help support them and then lead with their heart in that direction?

Melody Wilding [00:12:38]:
Yeah. Don’t do unto others that was done to you. Right. Be the cycle breaker there. And what do you say? Because, you know, I work with people in particular, you know, this, who are. Who are much more sensitive and who will beat themselves up for needing recognition, saying, I shouldn’t need this. I should just. I feel like I’m so.

Melody Wilding [00:13:05]:
I’m so attached to what my boss or my leadership thinks about me. I shouldn’t want this recognition. What do you say to someone who’s sort of wrestling with those thoughts of trying to. Trying to even push away their need?

Shanna Hocking [00:13:20]:
So I think, first of all, there is no supposed to and there is no should. If what we feel is what we feel, then we figure out how to honor that. If we’re not getting what we need, then we have to figure out how to get it, either from others or from ourselves. And I, you know, I was in this position where I was being told I should learn how to, you know, applaud my own self, pat myself on the back, where I felt that the way that I felt valued was receiving this kind of positive reinforcement and feedback. So that was a real identity shift for me. Like, maybe to your point, because I certainly fall in the sensitive category in a positive way. I think, as I’m sure you would agree, that’s a positive thing, but I think it’s really just saying this is what is important to me and this is not existing where I am. What can I do to change where I am and what can I do to change how I’m responsible for feeling what I’m feeling? And I think they have to happen in concert.

Shanna Hocking [00:14:18]:
It’s not either or. And I don’t think it’s bad to find value in getting recognized for how you contribute. I think it just can’t be the only thing that we rely on because people will continuously let you down.

Melody Wilding [00:14:35]:
Okay, that’s interesting. We’re going to come back to that because I do want to hear again, it’s sounding like, as with most things, it’s a balance. In either extreme is not where you want to be. You want to find the middle of being able to give recognition to yourself, but also getting a healthy amount of appreciation. Or like you were saying, positive feedback from those around you, even just to know that you’re on track, you’re doing your job well. And so we’ll circle back to giving recognition to yourself. But I would love to hear, you know, in that article, what I loved about your approach was you having more agency in the dynamic than you think. So talk to us about how do you try to get the recognition you want or get that appreciation or constructive feedback from your boss when they are not volunteering it?

Shanna Hocking [00:15:33]:
Well, I think it starts with managing up, and thank goodness you’re writing the book on that. I think if you’re not getting what you’re needing or looking for, then it’s up to you to ask for the feedback instead of waiting for it. And I think that there’s ways to do this that can help you be more likely to get the feedback that you’re looking for. And there’s two questions that I use as go to for this particular topic. My number one go to question for getting feedback at all from someone who’s reluctant to give it to you is what is one thing that I can do differently or better or more of in order to improve in my work? The one thing part makes it attainable for someone to share with you what they think that you can improve on or do more of. Maybe you’re already doing it well and they’d like to see even more of it. And if you’re specifically looking for positive feedback, then I like to encourage people to ask.

Melody Wilding [00:16:34]:
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Shanna Hocking [00:17:13]:
What is one thing that you feel I do especially well in my role? For someone who’s reluctant to give feedback, you’ve just given them clear parameters. I’m only looking for one thing, and I am looking for something that I do exceptionally well in my role. And so most people can follow those instructions, even if it wouldn’t occur to them on their own to be able to give that to you.

Melody Wilding [00:17:36]:
How does any of this change when you’re in a hybrid, or even more so, a fully remote environment where your interaction with your boss is obviously totally virtual, but it may be much less than when you’re in an in office environment.

Shanna Hocking [00:17:56]:
So I think that it is still possible to have these types of conversations in your one on one, whether you’re in person or you’re virtual. I like to start an agenda for a one on one with wins of the day or wins of the week. And when I do this, I am priming the conversation to be positive, and it would be a natural offshoot of that to be able to say, like, here’s something that I think went really well in our office, and here’s how I contributed to it. What would you add to that? Or this is what I saw that worked really well in this project. What is one thing that you think went exceptionally well in my role in this project? And I think that those, it doesn’t matter if you’re on the phone, if you’re on Zoom, like, those are conversations that you might have to lead but still fit in really well to a one on one agenda.

Melody Wilding [00:18:45]:
Yeah. And just going back to what you were saying earlier, that you have to understand your boss’s motivations, assume best intent until you have a reason not to assume your boss is really busy. They have a a lot of fires that they’re trying to put out. So help them out. Get, like you were saying, prime the conversation. Get these things in front of them. Sometimes it’s so much easier, and you can tell me because you have managed a lot of people throughout your career, but sometimes it’s so much easier when your team members give you things to react to rather than you having to do all of the work of coming up with it yourself. And it just makes it so much easier as a leader.

Melody Wilding [00:19:29]:
You can add on to what they’ve already shared versus you having to come up with it all on your own.

Shanna Hocking [00:19:35]:
Yes, it is because you understand how to focus in a way that supports them. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about before, which is some of this is on your boss to do. I mean, I’d like your boss to do a lot of it, but if the boss is not doing that, then some of it is up to us. And so this feels like a really nice way to co create this opportunity rather than one person feeling the overburden.

Melody Wilding [00:19:59]:
Right? Right. Yeah. And how about, what about people beyond your boss? Because in the article, and I think even earlier now, you were also talking about increasing your footprint of who you’re getting recognition from. So talk to us about that. How do we think about that? How do you build those relationships, approach people? You’re the master relationship builder here, so there is no better person to ask than you.

Shanna Hocking [00:20:30]:
That’s so kind. Thank you. It is the most joyful thing to have those relationships. So I think when you are for anything, if you’re not getting fully what you need from your boss, it’s really valuable to figure out other relationships that you can get those things from in the office. Sometimes it might be from a peer. I think it’s really wonderful when you can have a peer mentor or an accountability partner who says, hey, I noticed something in that meeting that you did really well. And I want to tell you that’s a beautiful thing to do for one of your peers. Maybe it’s another senior leader in the organization that you don’t report directly to, but is still part of the senior management team who had a chance to interact with you at an event or at a client meeting and is able to say, here’s something that I noticed that I wanted to share with you, or I’m going to mention to your boss how great you were able to navigate and handle that.

Shanna Hocking [00:21:25]:
And then the other part of this are mentors. You know, these are the people who are giving you advice, providing counsel. You might want to be in their shoes someday. And so this is a chance for you to hear from them something that you probably wish you heard directly in your workplace, but there’s still someone that you respect and admire, and that feedback will be beneficial for you.

Melody Wilding [00:21:46]:
Hmm. Yeah. And what I think is important here that you’re underscoring in a different way, is that I like to say to my clients, don’t go to the hardware store looking for milk. Sometimes your manager style may, they may not be someone who has that same drive for giving or even values, giving people a pat on the back. Some. Some bosses just are extremely task outcome oriented, that even if you give them all of the openings, they still may not take it. And so having those other outlets, as you were saying, gives you that opportunity to get a good gut check and triangulate their input and their reactions off of what’s happening with your boss.

Shanna Hocking [00:22:35]:
Yes, and I think I spent a lot of time in a hardware store looking for milk, so I really would have benefited from. From meeting you even sooner than I got to.

Melody Wilding [00:22:44]:
Well, then, speaking of which, part of someone else you can look for recognition from is yourself. And you were mentioning that earlier that you would receive that feedback from a manager that they told you, you have to find this validation within yourself, which, okay, fair, there is some of that. So how do you advise people to think about even just because it can feel kind of weird to try to give yourself recognition and it maybe doesn’t feel as meaningful. So how do you do that? Do you have any strategies or tips that you especially like?

Shanna Hocking [00:23:23]:
Well, I really like a self high five. If I can reference how I met your mother. I think it’s beneficial to celebrate your progress in all ways. Even if you’re having a great relationship with your boss who is giving you all of this recognition, you can also celebrate your own progress. And what that looks like is also intentionally looking for what went well. And maybe for some people, this is jotting down in your calendar, your day planner, or your phone at the end of the day, something that you did really well or that you felt like brought you the most energy and then saying you’re proud of yourself for that. I really like to keep track of all of these kinds of notes and accolades, whether they’re from myself or from someone else. In the bold move folder, I used to call it the add a girl folder, and I renamed it to make it more gender inclusive.

Shanna Hocking [00:24:20]:
But this is a folder where you keep track, and you can have it on your computer, or you can have it on your phone, or you can be like me and have a paper folder as well, where you’re really tracking all of these things and not everything I put in there is from someone else. Sometimes I write myself a note and say, hey, you did this really great thing today, and I want you to remember it and celebrate it. And then it goes right into that folder, and then you look back at it on the tough days when you’re not getting what you need or want from someone else.

Melody Wilding [00:24:47]:
Definitely I have one of those as well, where I have. I’ve heard it called smile file. I’ve called it a brag file in the past, and it’s just. It’s nice words from other people. And, yeah, when it’s a rainy day or I need that boost, it’s a reminder to self. And also something my husband and I have we should do more regularly than we do right now. Sometimes it’s called rose thorn bud. Or I’ve heard it called high low hero, which is here was a high point of the day.

Melody Wilding [00:25:22]:
Here was a low point of the day. Here was in hero. It’s. Here was someone that was a hero to you, either that, you know, directly or nothing, or bud, I think, is opportunities or. Yeah, looking forward. So I have found also that’s a nice way to sort of self congratulate. And also, there’s good research behind the fact that when we just allow ourselves to sit with our accomplishments and literally, like, relive them. Like, just relive yourself.

Melody Wilding [00:25:54]:
Nailing that presentation or hitting send on that hard email, it encodes it more in your brain, so it’s not just this blip that. Okay. Onto the next thing, and it’s just in one ear and out the other. You’re really taking it in. You’re integrating it into your body and your mind, which sounds a little woo, but makes sense when you think about it, so that it’s not a fleeting. You know, it’s not a fleeting instance. It becomes more of an experience and a memory.

Shanna Hocking [00:26:22]:
Yes. And you do it with someone you love. I think that’s so beautiful because it’s important for us to practice saying what we do well and what works well and valuing ourselves, even when you’re with someone else. And I think that for both of you to be able to reinforce that or whether you’re doing that with your child or another child you care about or someone else that you’re close to, I think that can only reinforce the connection between you and that person, too.

Melody Wilding [00:26:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned your one bold move a day folder. Was that right? Okay. And your book is the same title, one bold move a day. So I want to talk about this because that is. It’s such a great concept. I’ve loved this concept since I first met you, and I have always wanted to ask you, do you have a favorite bold move or one that stands out in your mind? Where you were like, that was a good one.

Shanna Hocking [00:27:20]:
Okay. So first I’ll say that I define a bold move as a meaningful action that helps you move forward, learn or grow. And I think that that’s a valuable place to start because that’s how I’m approaching bold moves. I think in terms of my own bold move, the idea of going out on my own in business, even though it’s now been two and a half years, I think it’s a pretty bold move. I was, quote, supposed to become a vice president for advancement for the rest of my career, and that’s a, that’s what I always intended to do. So when I made this leap in order to support more organizations and leaders, my goal was to help encourage other people to make their bold moves. And that is a big shift in my, in my why and my purpose and the way that I show up. And the thing about, you know, other people say to me, what’s the favorite bold move that you’ve heard? And my favorite bold move is anyone that anyone chooses for themselves, because it is really important that we choose our own bold moves every day and we define them for ourselves.

Shanna Hocking [00:28:27]:
So when people, you know, come up to me after a keynote or message me on LinkedIn and say, I want to share with you my bold move, then that is now my favorite bold move because it was important to them and I love celebrating it with them.

Melody Wilding [00:28:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s a life changing decision. It requires such a leap of faith. But I think what’s important for people to take home is that was a big, bold move, but it doesn’t have to be. Right. So what are some of small but still meaningful bold moves you’ve heard people take just to get people’s juices going?

Shanna Hocking [00:29:04]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think showing up for yourself is a bold move. I think for someone, someone choosing to invest in their own learning is a bold move. So someone listening right now is saying, I want to learn more. Learning is a bold move, right? Telling your friend, hey, here’s something I learned today, and here’s something I did well, which I’m going to tell you because I listened to Melody’s podcast. That’s another bold move, you know, creating a connection with someone, being willing to talk about your accomplishments. The beautiful thing about bold move, when it’s something that’s a meaningful action that moves you forward, is that some days your bold move is really loud and really big, and some days your bold move is quiet and no one else will ever know that you made it. You’re defining it for yourself.

Shanna Hocking [00:29:53]:
And just talking to a friend and saying, I want to be there for you in your difficult moment is another really beautiful bold move.

Melody Wilding [00:30:01]:
That’s wonderful. Yeah, it’s redefining bold. And that looks different every day. What has been your most recent bold move?

Shanna Hocking [00:30:12]:
Let’s see. Well, thank you for the reminder to think about my own bold moves. Okay, so earlier today, I reached out to someone that I really wanted to get to know, someone I’d like to meet with. Something they said inspired me. And I thought, that’s something I’d like to talk more about, I’d like to learn more about. And so I sent them a message. It’s a cold message. I don’t have any connections to them.

Shanna Hocking [00:30:42]:
I don’t know what will happen. But that is one of my favorite ways to meet amazing people. And looking at you, I’m pretty sure that that’s how you and I got to meet too.

Melody Wilding [00:30:54]:
It is. And I want to ask you about this because, like I said, you are so skilled. You are the best person I know at building relationships, but not doing it in a transactional way. I feel the word authentic’s a bit overused. That’s why I’m avoiding it. But you just, you build relationships, you build connection with people. And how. How do you tell us your secrets? Because you just have such a knack for not only, um, you know, the initial outreach, but also building the relationship over time.

Melody Wilding [00:31:34]:
So how do you. Do you have any secrets for us mere mortals in terms of, like, reaching out to people you want to know and then also cultivating that over time, because that’s also a system and takes effort as well.

Shanna Hocking [00:31:50]:
Well, thank you. That is very kind. I think the hardest part is that initial outreach, because we convince ourselves that someone’s not going to like us or someone’s not going to respond. We have to go into it thinking, I cannot control what this other person is going to do with my outreach. They may not respond, but I’m not going into it expecting that. I’m going into it because I genuinely care or am interested in something about this person, or I think I can help them or add value to them too. And so when you have that purest of intentions, I think it makes it look easy to everybody else because it is genuine curiosity and care that is driving that outreach for me. And I think in terms of a template, you might have one in one of your many fantastic articles.

Shanna Hocking [00:32:41]:
Melody, I do have some templates that I have used and recommend for people who are trying to figure out this first outreach to someone, but it’s pretty simple and straightforward. There’s something about you that caught my attention or something about you. That inspires me. I read your book. I read your article. I saw you on LinkedIn. Someone told me about you, right. And I would love a chance to learn from you and be able to share with you how you inspired me.

Shanna Hocking [00:33:08]:
And I think I have some ideas that might also help you. Would you be willing to connect for 20 minutes and then you send it out into the world? Maybe you don’t even ask to connect. Maybe because that’s not your goal. You just want to tell someone how they. How they affected your life positively. That’s a beautiful thing. And once you make that initial connection, it is on you to continue to cultivate it. And maybe this comes from our very beginning conversation about me being a fundraiser.

Shanna Hocking [00:33:33]:
It is always my job to be proactive in building that relationship, but because I believe in what’s possible from the power of connecting two people. And so, yeah, if I read one of your articles on HBR, one of your fantastic articles, so many beautiful articles. Likewise, I love to send you a note, and maybe you should stop writing so many great ones so I can actually send you notes more often, but. And just send you a note and say, like this, Washington, so good. And I wish I’d had this earlier in my life and career. And then in that brief moment, you just know I was thinking of you. And there’s so much power in that. It just goes back to recognition and the reason that we started this conversation in the first place.

Melody Wilding [00:34:12]:
That’s so true. And what’s really, I’ve noticed this about you, is your specificity when you reach out. Because, you know, when you’re. When you’re someone, I’m sure this happens to you, too. When you have a platform, more public, online, people reach out to you more often. And a lot of the outreach I will get is, hello, I see you’re into personal development. It would be wonderful to connect. And you can tell it’s just a spray and pray sort of approach, that someone actually genuinely does not want to reach out to you.

Melody Wilding [00:34:48]:
But it’s different when you say, you really inspired me in this way. This is something I’ve applied, or I’m planning to apply, or this helped me in my business or career. It got me. You inspired me to be asking myself this question that just little specificity goes such a long way to getting the other person to give you the time of day and take you seriously. It just makes the world of difference.

Shanna Hocking [00:35:18]:
Yes. Well, thank you. And I think that that relates to anything, whether we’re giving recognition to someone in the workplace, or we’re saying to someone how they positively affected our lives that we’ve never met before. The specificity is what defines the sincerity behind the action. It’s not just great job or great article. It’s something really touched me about the way that you suggested that we need to give recognition to ourselves. Here’s how my life has changed as a result. Here’s what I’m doing differently, and I wanted you to know I think that really says something more than just great article or great job at work.

Melody Wilding [00:36:02]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So Shawna, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you by your book?

Shanna Hocking [00:36:10]:
Well, thank you. I would love to continue the conversation. I am super active on LinkedIn at Shawna a hawking and you can find me on my website at Shawna Shanna ahawking.com and one bowl move a day is available wherever you love to purchase your favorite books, Amazon bookshop or your local bookstore.

Melody Wilding [00:36:34]:
Shawna, thank you again. Such a pleasure having you.

Shanna Hocking [00:36:37]:
Thank you so much. Melody.

Melody Wilding [00:36:40]:
Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of Psychology at work. If you enjoyed the show, I’d be so grateful if you could take just a minute to rate and review wherever you are listening. It’s how we reach more professionals just like you. And if you’d like to see even more content on how to feel more self assured, grounded, and in control of your emotions and reactions at work, follow me on LinkedIn or head to the links in the show notes.