Melody Wilding: How do you become fully confident and in control of your emotions and experience at work? It’s by mastering your own psychology and that of others. On this show, we decode the science of success, exploring how to get out of your own way and advance your career to new levels without becoming someone you’re not.

I’m Melody Wilding, bestselling author. Human behavior professor and award-winning executive coach. Get ready and let’s put psychology to work for you.

You’ve been invited to present your work to the executive team. It’s a big deal. You’re finally getting FaceTime with the people who make decisions about your career. You’ve prepared, you’ve built the deck, you have made sure every detail is covered. And then you present. You walk them through your process.

You explain your methodology. You show them the analysis, the breakdown of everything your team has done, and as you’re talking, you’re trying to read the room. Are they following? Do they get it? It’s hard to tell. Someone asks a clarifying question, another executive glances at their phone. The conversation moves on faster than you expected, and you leave that meeting with this nagging uncertainty.

Did that go well? Should I have said something differently? It eats at you afterwards in that persistent low level doubt sort of way. I think that went okay, but I’m honestly not sure. And what’s really frustrating is that your boss keeps telling you, you’re almost there, you’re on the cusp of that promotion.

You keep getting invited to the important meetings. But the next level never seems to come. This is the confusing, frustrating position. My guest today, Lindsey found herself in before she joined my program, speak like a senior leader. Lindsey is now a director of performance marketing in the construction industry with over 15 years of experience and nine years at her current company.

But when we first connected, she was stuck in this maddening limbo. Her boss was telling her she was ready for the director level. Leadership was inviting her to meetings that were important, and she was getting these inklings that she was on track, but the actual advancement wasn’t coming and she couldn’t figure out why.

She would get feedback like, we need to see you elevate your influence. You need more leadership presence. 

But what does that even mean? How do you elevate your influence when you’re already doing good work? How do you prove you’re ready when you’re already in the room, but somehow still not being heard? This is the gravitas gap that keeps high performers stuck, and maybe you are there too. You’re being told you’re close, you’re being given access, you’re doing everything you think you’re supposed to be doing, but something is still off. For Lindsey, that point came when her company went through a major leadership change, new CEO, new direct manager, and now the stakes were higher.

This was a pivotal moment for the company and for herself. Because if she was going to be part of the next evolution of the organization, she needed to figure out how to show up as a leader, now. Not eventually not when she felt ready, but now. But she still didn’t know how to do that, and that’s when she found Speak Like a Senior Leader.

So in today’s episode, you’re going to hear how Lindsey went from being on the cusp to actually getting promoted in a matter of months. You’ll hear how she made that crucial shift from trying to prove herself every day to having peer level confidence with executives. How her ideas went from being politely acknowledged to ones that leaders respected and acted on.

How she totally changed her approach to presenting and packaging her value, the impact of her work in a more compelling way. Lindsey cracked the code on presence, not by turning into a totally different person or changing who she is, but because she finally had a framework thanks to Speak Like a Senior Leader.

By the way, on the day this episode comes out, we have officially opened the doors for Speak Like a Senior Leader, but only for a very limited time until December 16th, so now is the time to secure your spot. If you want to walk into the new year with the system to become a crisp, clear, confident communicator and be handed dream opportunities before you ever ask for them, there is no better place. You can learn more and enroll at speaklikeaseniorleader.com.

As you listen to Lindsey’s story, I want you to ask yourself, what’s the gap between how you’re communicating now and how the leaders you admire communicate?

When you present to executives, are you just reporting information or are you creating a strategic conversation? Are you showing all of your work, when you should be showing your impact? Because that difference between being on the cusp and actually promoted it doesn’t mean you have to work more, longer, harder.

You’ve already done that. You have to communicate differently. That’s exactly what Lindsey figured out and what she’s going to share with you today. So let’s get into our conversation.

 Lindsey, so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for joining me.

Lindsey DellaDonna: Thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to speaking more to you today.

Melody Wilding: Yeah. Fantastic. We’re gonna talk about, an exciting couple of months that you have had as well as your experience inside Speak Like a Senior Leader, which you have been a part of. Let’s start with, what really drew you to sign up for this program? What was happening in your career, in your work life at that time?

And then we’ll go from there.

Lindsey DellaDonna: So it’s been interesting. I’ve had a lot of change at my company. Um, I’ve had a lot of tenure of over nine years and between my tenure and the change, I felt like I was at this moment where I knew I was at this cusp of being able to become a true leader in my next step at the company. I just didn’t know how to get there.

It became, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I had never had a leader that had taken me on that journey to guide me there. And I didn’t know where to find that information. And I was really grateful when I saw the speak like a senior leader series because. It felt like an opportunity that I had to take advantage of because of the situation that I was in.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and I should have asked you upfront, can you tell people a little bit about what you do so they have some context for that?

Lindsey DellaDonna: so a little bit about myself. I have been in marketing for over 15 years. My most recent position is I am a director, performance marketing in the construction industry. Um, prior to the construction industry, I’ve had a variety of different industry experience in Consumer packaged goods, higher education, IT consulting, and that is a little bit about me.

Melody Wilding: Fantastic. And you were mentioning, you were working on getting to the next level and not really knowing how to do that. In terms of your communication or the questions you were asking yourself. What felt difficult? How did, what did you feel was getting in your way or the real problem you were trying to solve?

Lindsey DellaDonna: The biggest challenge I was having is I was getting invited to the meetings that mattered with the leaders at the company. However, what I started to see is my communication style, it wasn’t being heard in the way that the executive leadership needed to hear it. And so for me it was this light bulb moment of how can I get my message across where my ideas that I have, which, could make a difference for the overall company, are understood in the way that the leaders need to understand them. And how do we take action then was really the challenge I was experiencing.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and we would call that the gravitas gap, right? Where you were clearly seasoned, been in this industry for nine years. You were in those senior leadership conversations and clearly they saw a potential in you. You had great ideas to share, but there’s a gap, right? Some, something wasn’t clicking.

There was a disconnect. Was there a particular situation that made you think, okay, now is the time for me to make a change?

Lindsey DellaDonna: There was a particular situation, we recently at the company had a lot of change happen. I myself had a new direct leader and, shortly after that, we had gained a new CEO. And at this pivotal point for the company, it was this next evolution that needed to occur. And I recognized in myself that, okay, if I wanna be part of this evolution, I need to know how to be in the room with these leaders.

I need to elevate myself, and I need to have the confidence and learn the skills and the strategies, a framework, if you will, in order to help get me there. And I am really grateful for this series because that is exactly what I’ve been able to learn thus far is, those strategies and that guide for how I need to handle myself in those situations.

Melody Wilding: Going back to that gravitas gap, and you had mentioned to me in some of your responses that you felt like, or you knew you were on the cusp of a promotion, and so what else were you noticing about how your communication or how you were getting through to senior leadership that it wasn’t

quite clicking? 

Lindsey DellaDonna: That’s a great question. What I was noticing in myself is, it was almost a feeling I had this anxiety, I had this, thought process that would occur after every meeting where I would think to myself and overthink everything. How did that go? Did I present myself in the right way? What could I have done better?

And it was this constant stress that I was putting on myself, mainly because I didn’t know the tools or had the learnings in the past to help me overcome that. 

Melody Wilding: To you, what did it mean to elevate your communication? what were you hoping would be different for you when you were speaking at that elevated level or, presenting yourself in that way?

Lindsey DellaDonna: I was hoping by getting the opportunity to elevate my communication style, that it would bring me a sense of confidence and peace so that way I wasn’t constantly in this state of anxiety and, and fear. I mean, when you’re in a room with executives, it can be scary. And I wanted to be able to put my stake in the ground that I belonged, I am a leader. I’ve had tenure, I’ve had the industry experience, and I am here for a reason. And it was something that I felt like I needed to prove for myself as well.

Melody Wilding: I appreciate you sharing that too, because I think for a lot of people, they won’t even let themselves join a program like this because they have that belief of, I don’t belong in this room. These senior leaders, they move so quickly. They’re all so articulate. They can all just take a really complex idea and say it so simply, so other people understand it and listen and act on it.

And, that’s not me. And I will never be that. And so I think just even that belief of I do belong here, there is just this gap that I need to close between where I am right now and where I want to be, and being able to hold my own with those people is a big thing I hear because yes, executives, they move fast.

They ask a lot of questions. They poke holes in things. They may have high expectations as well, and so being able to know how to operate and pivot and respond when those things happen, yes, it takes practice and yes, it’s also learnable. So I think that’s a very important takeaway for everyone, is not to count yourself out.

And in your case, you were already in those rooms. Yet I have seen countless people who still let the imposter syndrome get the better of them. And then it becomes your reality, right? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as well. What drew you to speak like a senior leader in particular?

Because you’re someone like you, obviously you work on yourself. I’m sure you read a ton of books, you listen to tons of podcasts. What made you say, this program looks like what I’ve been, what I’ve been searching for?

Lindsey DellaDonna: The program really drew me in because of the curriculum and the live coaching. I had never been under a leader who had been able to show me and teach me in those ways. And, this for me was an expedited way to get that information in a more structured way. And allow me to join the sessions and, and take the series,

also at my own time. I am a busy professional and a lot of times the meetings that take place I can’t attend. However, I’m grateful that there’s a portal and I can take it at my own pace and review each of the videos and participate in the forums that I can. And listen to the recordings, and it still is an opportunity for me, even though I can’t be present, to listen back and see if there are takeaways that I can apply to my everyday at my own company.

Melody Wilding: Absolutely. And I do wanna circle back to that fact because again, I, I think another thing that really stops people from putting themself, I, joining a program like this, but even putting themself in the, in the game, in the running for some of these opportunities is, well, if I can’t do everything in this program, then I might as well do nothing.

And you’re a great example of not letting that stand in the way. So I, I do wanna come back to that, but first I wanna talk about the, the skills you grew in the program and some of the results you’ve seen. ’cause they are very remarkable and substantial. What was a light bulb moment for you that you had as you were going through the curriculum that made you say, wow, okay, this clicks, I hadn’t seen this like in this way before.

What’s an example of that for you?

Lindsey DellaDonna: There was at the very beginning of the Speak like a Senior Leader series an overview of the different leadership styles, and it’s a controller or a cheerleader, a caretaker, it was an interesting overview to see how all of those different, I’ll say, leadership styles come to fruition and how as a business professional, yes, you could have someone who is, yep, they’re a controller.

Yes, they’re a caretaker, but a lot of times what I’m noticing now is, this heightened awareness that I have for, is there a blend that’s taking place? And ultimately, even with me gaining a new leader, um, here at my current company, I’ve now adjusted the way that I speak to that individual. And now I’m able to adapt based on my understanding of

their leadership needs and how they communicate. So for me, it’s been a huge change in my awareness overall. And also when I’m in a room with leaders, the presentation skills I’ve been able to gain from the Speak Like a Senior Leader series, knowing that I went from, what a manager would do from a perspective of, I’m just gonna give all the details and they’re gonna care about all the details.

I wanna make sure I, I tell them everything. But the reality is, one, they don’t have time for that. Two, is it really what they care about? No. They care about what’s the bottom line? What’s the recommendation? How do we move forward? What do I need to, what do I need from them? And with that alone, I’ve been able to

change up any business cases that I have and adjust them to that style and see progression, which has been huge for me.

Melody Wilding: Fantastic. Let, let’s unpack that just a little bit more in terms of the communication styles, and you were mentioning those four C’s we talk about in the program: commander, cheerleader, caretaker, controller. How have you applied that to, to elevate, as you were saying, to take your communication to the next level with the executives you have been dealing with?

What does that look like and what difference has it made?

Lindsey DellaDonna: What it looks like for me as a director of performance marketing is I’m responsible for the growth through digital advertising lead generation efforts for the company. And ultimately what I need to communicate is performance, the results of the campaign. And so instead of giving the executives a whole overview of what we did and how we did it, and untangling all the details behind it, I am.

Taking it down to, we made this much money, we’ve been able to drive this many leads. This is what we’re doing to make it better. And sometimes there’s and ask of, well, I need more money for this, and it’s helped me cultivate those conversations in a more clear way that has helped us be able to get that money and continue the campaign that we need to run because it is producing results.

I just needed to communicate those results in a better way.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and it to me reminds me of the difference between like going from kind of proving, begging energy, like please gimme this money. Like we’ve been working so hard, we’ve been doing really well. We need this to keep working, and this kind of forcing. Of making a case to being able to very confidently present your results, and then it’s almost a formality to say, well, of course it would, it’s very reasonable and it makes complete sense that we continue investing in this, which I’m sure feels a lot better for you to feel like you’re not trying to beg the executives to give you a hundred thousand more dollars to invest in this campaign. 

It’s the natural next step now, which is awesome. So fun to hear that. And you were also talking about the how in the program we do. Um, we not only talk a lot about the tactics and the frameworks and you know, my, something I love more than anything is being able to write scripts for all of you in terms of when this happens, here’s how you say this, or if you’re dealing with someone who’s a commander, here’s words to use versus not use and framing to use versus not use.

But you are alluding to this idea between the difference between the manager presentation mindset and the executive presentation mindset and. And do you wanna hear more about how that has changed how you approach presentations. But I think it speaks to the fact that we’re not just about the tactics here.

The tactics are important, but you also have to understand the underlying psychology of why these things work. Because if I just gave you sort of bandaid, say things this way and use this format in terms of how you structure your presentation. Without understanding the why, it makes it a lot harder for you to replicate going forward when dynamics shift or that framework doesn’t 100% apply.

And so I’m so glad you’ve been able to internalize a lot of that because that is the maturity that you need to be able to respond in the moment. Because as you get higher and higher, there’s going to be those nuances. People are going to throw those curve balls or a wrench in a situation, and you have to be able to see it at that meta level of what’s happening here and diagnose it for that reason.

So I think that’s brilliant. Now, in terms of the, your presentation skills, what have you changed there and what, what response have you seen from that?

Lindsey DellaDonna: The biggest change I made in my presentations, I give a lot of PowerPoint presentations. I feel that from a visual standpoint, it helps me communicate the story, but also for the recipient of that presentation who I’m presenting to, helps them get clarity visually, I’m just a visual person overall, and I think most people are from, from when you’re in presentations.

But, I went from, the bullet points with tons of descriptions and sentences, and I need to explain everything so they can read it all and going through the Speak Like a Senior Leader series, I realized, well, maybe that’s not needed. Maybe I need to simplify  and who am I really doing this for? Am I doing it for myself?

Am I doing it for them? And is it more impactful to simplify with a visual or simplify with a number that really matters. For example, in, in my industry and what my role is at the company, being able to show that impact from a return on ad spend and the amount of revenue we’ve been able to obtain from the campaign.

And sometimes that’s, that’s all we need to show. And then it allows the queue to trigger me in a, in the standpoint of, okay, now I can tell the story. And it’s more of that engagement of listening and seeing the impact on the screen. However, not having to have them read a novel that’s shown to them, and it’s become more impactful for me to redesign my presentations in that way.

Melody Wilding: Yeah, and that’s one of those core Differences between the manager mindset of presentations and the executive is the manager mindset is presentations are a data dump. They are. How we traditionally think of a presentation. I am presenting information to you that I have worked on and I have collated versus the executive meeting mindset is more participatory.

And you were talking about creating a dialogue and being able to share a story with them and engage them, and it’s no wonder then to me, why you’re getting better results because you’re, you’re meeting them more as a peer and less as a subordinate who is simply reporting up to them, literally reporting information.

That leads us to the big development you’ve had, which you have alluded to, which is that you were promoted to director. Huge congratulations. So exciting. How does that feel?

Lindsey DellaDonna: it’s really exciting for me. it felt like I was on that cusp of going from a manager to a director level, and I knew I was ready for it. And I just didn’t know how to get there. And I’m really grateful for the opportunity and I have a really strong leader now who I report to, and she saw that, potential in me.

And was able to fight for me to be able to get this opportunity, and I’m really excited for what these next few years and more have, have to bring for me.

Melody Wilding: It’s fantastic. Very well deserved.

How do you think elevating your communication played into actually getting from the manager level to the director level now and actually getting that push through at this point in time?

Lindsey DellaDonna: I think it played a huge role because I, I myself, needed to be able to have those keys to the castle, if you will, that framework to be able to know what to do and when to do it. And what ended up happening is not only did it shift my mindset, it shift my communication style from that day to day being in the work, being a manager,

 being an executor to flipping the script for me to now be okay, I’m a leader. I need to, be able to communicate and present myself the way that my peers do as other leaders in the company. And it’s almost that mindset of, dress for the career that you wanna be in. And I think as, as a leader and where I wanted to be seen as a leader, I needed to do that same thing.

And being able to learn from Speak Like a Senior Leader, uh, that series I’ve been able to put into practice day to day of how I want to be seen and how I wanna be communicating, and it’s helped me overall see that elevation take place.

Melody Wilding: What other types of results? I mean, getting a promotion is huge on its own and it really speaks to the fact, no pun intended, that when you change the way that you’re packaging and presenting what you do know and how you come across, how that affects perception of your readiness to operate at that next level.

And I’m curious, in addition to the promotion, what other results or changes have you noticed, whether, you mentioned being able to get funding for your campaigns more, but are there subtler or other results that you have seen as a consequence of really taking on board and rolling out some of these skills?

Lindsey DellaDonna: The biggest shift I’ve seen has been the fact that I now feel that senior leadership hears me and is listening and is willing, to put into action or give me the resources now to accomplish what I need to accomplish for the betterment of the company. I think that a level of new respect has been formed and trust, and for me, those are intangible as I am building the relationships with the stakeholders and across the company and other leaders across the company.

 that is crucial in order to get progression for me. And so I think even those which might not be so minor, they really are huge, huge characteristics and values that I’ve been able to obtain, which I’m really grateful for.

Melody Wilding: Yes. Yes, and I appreciate you saying that too because yeah, it sounds like a lot of these skills have been instrumental to putting your promotion over getting it over the line, but also you’re going to carry this forever, and now it’s senior director level, VP level. This is just going to keep compounding because you know, I’ve had so many conversations with people about how now that we’re in this age of AI where everyone has access to the same information.

These quote unquote soft skills, which are not really soft, they become more important, the higher you rise, are all the more critical. Um, and so it’s just, it’s, it’s great that you will have this toolkit that’s just going to keep paying dividends for you over time.

It also sounds like that your confidence in yourself, your self-assuredness, has changed as well. What have you noticed there, whether it’s your stress level, the mental load you feel like you’re carrying? What’s different for you now?

Lindsey DellaDonna: All of those things and more. Not only has it brought my anxiety down when I am in a room with senior leaders, I now have the confidence to raise my hand and speak up. And before I may have just listened and maybe I did have ideas I wanted to contribute. But it’s scary to raise your hand. And now I am in this position where I feel and know that I can raise my hand and they wanna hear from me.

And that’s okay to do that. And maybe it’s not perfect, but I am putting myself out there and I’m trying, and I, the whole time in the back of my head, I am putting these thoughts into motion based on the speak like a senior leader framework of, okay, what are those puzzle pieces that Melody gave me that I can now implement?

And maybe it’s not all at once, but if it’s just one little win that I can apply for that raising of my hand or that conversation or that presentation, to me that is a, a big win and just progression forward.

Melody Wilding: Yes. And I think having, uh, I’ve definitely seen this in my own career where just feeling like you have something to fall back on, like you were saying, the frameworks or a tool or a script for a certain situation, it just, it gives you that little push that you need to actually take that step because it doesn’t feel, um, it doesn’t feel so open-ended, you have something to wrap your head around to say, alright, I know roughly how I am going to approach this now. Which then gives you a bit more of that courage and it makes it easier to then iterate on that process. ‘Cause you’re not just guessing and walking into total uncertainty.

You have something to start from. So I, I can definitely see, and it becomes this virtuous cycle as you, you first have to have the courage to take the leap. To try the tool in the wild, even if it doesn’t go perfectly, it won’t. Right? But then you learn from that and then you do it again, or you try something different.

And in your case, it sounds like every time, not only have you iterated, but the feedback has gradually gotten stronger and stronger. And so it becomes this self reinforcement, which builds your confidence for next time. Yeah. That’s great.

Now, you were mentioning that you, you can’t always attend the calls. Talk to me about that because I, I was saying before that a lot of people will say, well, if I, if I can’t join, then I might as well not do this. ’cause I know I can’t make the live calls and I’m super busy right now. I don’t know how I’m going to get through the content. How have you made it work for yourself? Because you are someone who has been so proactive, you have found a way, despite your demanding schedule in life to get really tangible, substantial results from the curriculum and the coaching.

Lindsey DellaDonna: For me, the flexibility of having the recordings has been so helpful for me and my schedule. What I’ve been able to do is put time aside during the lunches that I do have the opportunity to, to re listen to everything or even if it’s after hours, if I am about to go to bed, I can watch at least the recording from the last coaching session or knock out some of the curriculum videos.

And I think if you want something, you’re gonna do whatever it is that you can do to make it happen. And I’ll speak for myself. And that’s the commitment to my supervisor too, that I, she approved this. Expense that the company is covering for me. And I also see she’s giving me this opportunity, and part of that opportunity is that I also want to learn from where I can.

And if that means that I need to taken early morning or a lunch or after hours to do that, I’m gonna put the time aside to do that and I’m grateful that I can, due to the portal that’s available.

Melody Wilding: Can we talk a little bit about asking your employer to sponsor this? Because a lot of people don’t even know that’s an option or they feel really hesitant to do that because they don’t wanna make it seem like I’m failing, I’m struggling. How did you approach that? Even the, the anticipation of doing it and the self-talk around making that request and actually,

 even if you’re willing to share what you said, to get that approved by your management, I think a lot of people would, would benefit from that.

Lindsey DellaDonna: So I’m really grateful to have a boss that gives me feedback. I know people can be intimidated by feedback, but feedback really is a blessing. And what she said to me is, how can we elevate your influence and how can we get you to that level where you have that leadership presence? And when I saw the postings on LinkedIn about this series going live, I grasped at the opportunity to ask her, and it’s actually really funny ’cause I am in the middle of reading your book as well for Managing Up. And part of the Managing Up also talks about the leadership styles and, I looked into that further and I actually, when I made my ask, I put it into the framework of how she may receive it the best. And, I kid you not, it was almost immediate that when I sent the email to her, I said, this is what I’m looking to do. I framed it in the communication style that could be best received by her. And it was an immediate, yep, this is approved. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that worked. This is crazy.

I’m so excited and I’m, I’m really grateful that, um, between the book series that you wrote and the speaker series that everything came together, and that she invested in me and I’m really grateful that I got to go through the program.

Melody Wilding: That is fantastic. That makes my day to hear. What a perfect, I mean the, the learning starts even before the program began in terms of being able to apply that and just bravo for you, having the, the courage to put that out there. And just for anyone listening, we do actually provide materials. We provide a sample letter and a PDF to send your employer.

And so if you’re listening and you want that, just reach out to us on my website. We’re happy to get what you need. But as you said, so many organizations are happy to support this because they want to keep high performers like yourself. They wanna keep you happy, they want to keep you there. And, in particular, if you have received feedback about, hey, we wanna see you be able to translate what you’re doing to business impact or work with different stakeholders, or improve your executive presence, or we see your readiness for the next level, but there’s these few gaps we need to fill, then absolutely capitalize on that to say, hey, I found a really cost-effective solution for the organization to be able to do that. Here’s the expected results. Is this something that we would be willing to do and nine times outta 10 the organization says, sure. And so I’m so glad you had that, that experience and they supported you as well. Okay. Coming down to our final questions here, my,

my second to last final question is, you mentioned the book Managing Up, which came out in March. Glad to hear you are reading it. It sounds like enjoying it. Um, some people have told me, well, I am assuming the program is just going a little bit deeper than you do in your book. Is that correct? And what would you say to that as someone who has gone through the program now is reading the book?

What would you say the differences are? Your experience has been?

Lindsey DellaDonna: I would say the biggest difference between what the book is explaining and the Speak Like a Senior Leader series is the series is so much more extensive. What the curriculum really focuses on is bite-size pieces of information broken out into multiple videos where you can learn that particular topic and then it flows into the next topic and it breaks it into what I would say are the primary foundation pieces, overall for how to get elevated. The book is great. The book reviews some of the information as it relates to the different leadership styles. Yes. And talks about how you, in, fight for yourself or, um, if there’s a pay increase you’re trying to get and, and breaks down those different challenges. But I think the bigger difference for this is it’s more interactive.

With the speaker series, not only do you get the curriculum, but you also get the opportunity to, um, be in a group setting, um, with Melody and be able to learn from your peers. And a lot of times what I have found is the questions that our cohort are bringing up are the same kinds of challenges I’m facing myself.

And we get to hear overall from a group setting how to overcome that. And so it is live learning. It is live executive coaching, which obviously you’re not gonna get from the book.  you get that opportunity to be in those live sessions, learn and listen, and, even ask questions yourself if you have them.

Melody Wilding: Yes. Yes. And you know, I, the way I like to break it down is the difference between depth and breadth, right? The Managing Up is really, it’s based around the 10 conversations for managing up. It’s a, it’s sort of a high level overview of everything it takes to be respected and advance in your career, whereas Speak Like a Senior Leader, we go much deeper into specific communication tactics for executive presence and executive level communication.

So the, the depth and specificity of what I can provide in the program is just not even comparable to what I can get into in the book. And there’s so much that I didn’t have space for or was out of scope for the book that I’ve included in speak like a senior leader. Uh, and of course the interactive components.

You know, a lot of people will tell me, I love the book, but I only have time, I’ll pick up and read a chapter here and there, and then I put it down for a month and come back to it. And so going through the program, having that that pacing week to week, some of that built in accountability and support to get feedback on your specific situations,

I mean, for a lot of people, that makes the difference between, okay, this is nice information and something that actually can get you a promotion. So yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. Now last question for you.

Would you recommend the program to somebody else who is in your position like you were and what would you tell them?

Lindsey DellaDonna: 100%, I would recommend the Speak like a Senior Leader series. I think for me it was, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. But what I did know is I wanted to learn how to have that executive presence, learn the framework and the skills to be able to feel confident and be able to overall elevate myself for where I wanted to be and where I saw myself, and also where my leadership team saw me and being able to recognize that I wanted to be in that room as well.

Melody Wilding: Fantastic. Lindsey, thank you so, so much for joining me today for sharing about your experience and your story. I know it’s gonna inspire a lot of people who are feeling like they’re on the cusp of something themselves. And you mentioned having the keys to the castle and, there’s a lot of people who feel like that just feels out of reach for me.

I don’t even understand what I’m missing or how to get there. So I really appreciate you coming on and, and sharing all of this. Thank you.

Lindsey DellaDonna: Thank you.

Melody Wilding: Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of Psychology at Work. If you enjoyed the show, I’d be so grateful if you could take just a minute to rate and review Wherever you are listening, it’s how we reach more professionals just like you. And if you’d like to see even more content on how to feel more self-assured, grounded, and in control of your emotions and reactions at work, follow me on LinkedIn or head to the links in the show notes.